| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Turbonutter |
Autocar 09th Sept/Insignia VXR road testHmmm, it really is much slower than I expected for a 320bhp 4wd with sporting aspirations. Being 1930kg ( Touring version ) doesn't help but acceleration is broadly on a par to 100 with an E36 328i Touring manual.Bit disappointing really. End of term test on the Focus RS . I wonder how many have sold so far. Goodwin reveals Renault have sold 159 R26Rs over here and there are about 6 left still available. Some blurb on the Merc SLS AMG as well and the McLaren MP4-12C |
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| Pkh72 |
They have also slipped in an unannounced 10p increase as well.
Hardly bank breaking but they have gone over my cut off point where i thought it was worth it so i'm just going to get odd copies from now on. I'm not getting time to read them anyway, i'm currently reading 5th August issue! |
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| Turbonutter |
I mostly buy them for the road tests on the pretext that in about 5 years I might buy something tested! 
I do miss the writings of Chris Harris though...although Steve Sutcliffe does a good job as a replacement |
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| simonp |
There aren't 6 R26.Rs left according to RUK, there were only 2 or 3 some weeks ago, which was last time I saw an update.
I can't believe the Insignia weighs nearly 2 tonnes! I think the 2.8T Elite is only about 1500kg in hatchback form. The VXR can't have much more kit than one of those so does the estate bodyshell add 400kg? |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I'd like to see Autocar do a feature on weight of modern cars, especially the difference between the manufacturers' quoted weights and the actual weight as tested, and with the usual FG that most customers will spec. Some manufacturers - Audi and Jaguar in particular spring to mind - must fill their cars with helium to get their quoted weights, as they're invariably almost comically heavier by the time Autocar sticks them on the scales.
(insert obvious comment about Sutcliffe) |
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| maz |
Great first drive of the Alfa 159 1750, they quote 0 -60 in 7.7sec. and 217mph top speed ! wow,
and they complain its too heavy |
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| Humphrey The Pug |
R26R's sold out some months ago, well I say sold out, as they weren't selling Renault directed many of them back into mainland Europe.
Shame really that they couldn't shift only 230, there are more dealers than that, well probably not now as many have shut up shop. I have seen at least 4 Focus RS' on the road but no Megane's and I did read that the initial 3000 of orders that Ford thought they would get for the prejected run of the car sold out pretty quickly and so more are being built as they weren't a limited run. *edit* Ive just found two but they are at dealers and they have had them for 99 days and 92 days, I wouldn't be surprised if they are sold and the system hasn't been updated. |
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| Turbonutter |
You must have the Sport GT edition of the mag....only does 214mph in my copy
In reality 146mph from 197bhp |
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| maz |
ooh sorry. I do tend to exaggerate |
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| Turbonutter |
They probably recorded the top speed in your mag round the Hyperbole rather than the Millbrook Bowl 
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| cbeaks1 |
Re: Autocar 09th Sept/Insignia VXR road test
Over 850 registered so far and nearly 2000 contracted but not yet built/delivered/registered. |
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| Matt |
It's a shocker the Insignia is so slow with that power - must be some large drivetrain losses or the German cars turn up stronger than their quoted figures. It'll be good to see figures of the hatch or saloon. | ||||||
| Martin |
What are the numbers for the VXR?
Is it not quite in the M5 league as suggested by Cropley?!! Passat R36 for me please. |
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| Matt |
They placed it above the R36
1. 335i - 4 stars 2. C350 - 3.5 stars 3. VXR - 3.5 stars 4. S4 Avant - 3.5 stars 5. R36 - 3 stars The numbers for the VXR (Audi in brackets) 321bhp at 5250 (328 at 5500-7000) 321lb ft at 5250 (324 at 2900-5300) 6.7 to 60 (5.2 claimed to 62) 1940kg claimed (1705kg claimed) 274g/km, 24.2mpg combined (229 and 21.2 combined) |
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| Martin |
0-60 in 6.7 
I hope I come across one in the Clubman, that would be hilarious 
As a used buy and nearer £20k, I bet the R36 would do better and at least it looks nice! 1940kg is ridiculous, my FG 520d will only weigh 1545kg and that's with fuel, luggage and a driver on board. It won't take much to get the VXR to 2 tonnes!! |
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| Blarno |
Maybe manufacturers will learn that they can't overcome weight by adding more power. 6.7 to 60 is abysmal for a 320 Bhp car. That's as powerful as an E36 M3 Evo, give or take a few ponies and that was a sub 6 second car. | ||||||
| Turbonutter |
What generation 520d is that? How much do you weigh and how much luggage? An E90 320d is 1500kg. My E36 328i saloon is 1420kg with half a tank and no luggage or driver on measured on the local weighbridge - I'm pretty sure I could get it to 1540kg pretty easy |
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| Martin |
I've checked and it's actually 1580kg in the trim level I'm getting, but that's still pretty light for the size of car.
It's the latest E60 in M Sport trim. I couldn't believe it at first myself, but it weighs the same as a 320d Touring / 135i coupe and a lot less than the competition. The whole front end is Aluminium, which I guess makes a lot of difference and is why the 520d isn't quite the snail you'd think! The C250 Sport I looked at is much smaller but 150kg heavier. The new 5 Series GT goes back to all steel and is 400+ kg heavier (2035kg for a 530d SE)! The weight I quoted is based on the std BMW measurement, which is something like a 90% full fuel tank, 60kg driver and 20kg (not sure about that one) of luggage. They are all weighed in the same way, so it's a likefor like comparison with the 320d. |
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| Matt |
You need a light car like the Astra at 1205kg, add that 4WD turbo drivetrain and give it to me, Vauxhall. 
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| "him" |
Indeed, your Clio (or mine for that matter) wouldn't be too far away from that... Admittedly, it would do better in the wet, the 0-100 will be interesting, what was it? |
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| Turbonutter |
0-100 was 16.9 - pretty slow for dry conditions. A 328i Touring did 17.1 |
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| Matt |
I wonder if it was wet when they did the test, because the on the limit was talking about wet weather performance right from the start of the article, with a cursory glance to dry performance. Wouldn't be like Autocar to hamstring a Vauxhall, would it...
I still remember the Astra VXR getting 5 handling stars and the ST only had 4/4.5. The logic of that test was never repeated again, however. |
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| simonp |
Turns out this is crap (thanks Car magazine!). In the 2009 brochure I have the Elite 2.8T hatch is listed as 1768kg and the ST as 1878kg for kerbweights. Why VX would claim 1705kg for the VXR is therefore a mystery, seeing as it's just a slightly differently equipped and faster version of that model? |
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| Turbonutter |
Don't know to be fair - it said 'Dry' on the results page but typos/printing errors are very common. They rated the Astra GTE 16v pretty highly in the triple test with the 309 Gti and Golf GTi 16v. It was the Golf that got the wooden spoon. All depends on the road tester(s) at the time. I suspect with the VXR, long gearing has a bit of an effect as well. Always hampered the old Vectra GSis when they were up against the Mondeo ST24/ST200s. The engines were undoubtedly strong but the gearing used to blunt the performance |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
The gearing might be a little longer than a mainstream model, but the performance is utter pants. Far from being a cut-price M3 rival as hyped, it isn't even on 335i or S4 performance. I know that 0-60 isn't everything, but the A4 with the 3.2 is haf a second quicker to 60 than the VXR, and may even undercut it price wise.
Can't see them flying out of the showrooms. |
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| Turbonutter |
Very true - I'll be interested to see if EVO put one through the timing gear. They're about the only other UK mag that do proper road tests and they quite liked the old Vectras ( GSis and VXRs ) |
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| "him" |
2nd gear in the GSi was particularly woeful I recall... 0-100 in 16.9 is crap for a car with that much power! I am fairly confident mine could stay with that (in the dry...)
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| Blarno |
Heavy flywheels and crap gearboxes spoil the Vauxhall V6. It's a corking engine otherwise. | ||||||
| Turbonutter |
Yep, when my Primera was written off, one of the cars I tried out to replace it was the Mk1 Vectra GSi ( flat faced wheels ) - positive reports in Autocar and EVO. I wanted something sporty with a bit more poke than the Primera. ST200s were too new, ST24s too thirsty for the performance so it came down to an E36 328/Vectra Gsi ...both with similar power. I tried 2 Vectras as there wasn't much choice locally ( round Christmas is a poor time to buy a 2nd hand car in terms of choice ). The engines on both Vectras sounded really nice, a mini muscle car noise but it was hard to believe that they had the same power as the BMW. Like you say, they felt tardy to rev and really needed a lot of throttle to get the going at the pace the BMW would keep with less effort. Did seem to handle well although my test drive on one was a bit curtailed in road choice. I'm sure they could be made into a good car but MSD hadn't gone quite far enough for me as both Vectra were more expensive than the ( admittedly higher mileage ) E36 328 I ended up with. Seats were nice in the Vectra though I would have also fancied trying a 156 V6 but at the time there were none up for sale anywhere close 
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| Blarno |
The heavy flywheel helped with the top speed on the V6 Vectras. Nearly 150 mph was achievable in the GSi, from 198 Bhp. Heavy cars, too.
Before I owned my V6 SRi, it belonged to a friend and he had an indicated 140 out of it, with room to spare. |
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| DaveGibson |
I was following a silver coloured car on the motorway on Sunday that I didn't recognise, even though its tail lights were very distinctive. Every time I neared it, but not close enough to see the badge, a car (one of which was a Volvo estate carrying four kayaks on the roof) pulled in between us and slowed me down. When I finally got a clear run, the other car had disappeared. From this test, I now know it was an Insignia ST. From the rate it disappeared it must have had some power under the bonnet, so maybe it was a VXR. | ||||||
| simonp |
That 16.9 to 100 is pretty poor. I seem to recall that the Astra Coupe Turbo did it in 17.3 (in the Autocar roadtest) and that was only 190bhp! | ||||||
| Matt |
And if it put its power down on the road as badly as the 1.8 then that's a cracking time!
It seems odd they lumbered the V6s with a poor second gear, because it's very strong (for this level) on the two 1.8s I've driven. |
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| Rodge |
Mine will do that with 6bhp less
It is slower to 60 though, and probably 100 too...... Vauxhall obviously just make heavy cars with long lower gearing. |
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| simonp |
Can I ask if the test mentions the electric handbrake? I'm starting to fancy a lesser Insignia as my next car and have read they're making this piece of FG standard across the range which is putting me off a bit! | ||||||
| PG |
Now that I've read the article, my overall impression is that if it was £25k and front wheel drive they might be onto something. But at £33k and with those CO2 outputs (and let's face it, this will be a company purchase) I don't think we'll see many on the road. | ||||||
| Gurney |
The CO2 is nearly as bad as the GTA (285) and that's the reason the Alfa engine was canned!
Performance for all that horsepower is shocking, something amiss somewhere. Still like this though, especially in wagon form. Think it would have to be an R36 at the end of the day though. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Fixed your post |
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| Gurney |
Ideally, but I can't afford one. Then again I can't afford the GTA, the wife, smart, enough chocolate...... |
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| TimR |
Lose the wife and if that's not enough bin the smart
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| Gurney |
Any wife daft enough to let me purchase a GTA has to be worth keeping. |
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| TimR |
Good point.
I've got an idea. Your wife likes running and cycling. If you're running short of cash at any point hook a treadmill or her bike up to a generator and supply your own electricity
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| DaveGibson |
From the pictures, it would appear that it had a normal handbrake. |
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| "him" |
Just reading through what little data the Autocar site has online and I notice the Power to weight of 165 bhp per tonne.
Hopeless! |
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| simonp |
It do, don't it! In the brochure however... http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view.php?id=1260571&da=y Strange? 
I have definitely read that the electric jobby will be standardised across the range, so the test car must be a pre-production jobby. (VX are known for that) http://www.gmukfleethub.co.uk/ass..._new_Insignia_BiTurbo_diesel.html |
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| Blarno |
Less than mine!
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| simonp |
Surely that depends on whether your car weighs wot they say it do and makes the prescribed amount of power to go with it!
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| Matt |
As daft as it would be for them to do so, perhaps if it's pre-production it's very poorly. 330is when they had 231bhp were as quick as that and that didn't have a turbo to help it along. As for electronic handbrakes, my Dad discovered you can't yank it whilst moving, it just beeps three times. |
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| Martin |
According to the handbook, pressing the electronic handbrake switch in the Passat gave you additional emergency braking. I never tried it!! | ||||||
| "him" |
My car weighs less , and makes more... |
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| tali |
36k as tested -that is taking the piss -best off with a Legacy Spec B
So it "ain't going to fly out of the showrooms" - but previous 25K Vectra VXRs are also very rare - must be less than 1% of Vectra sales Ford intend to sell 4000 Rs Focus in UK |
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| PhilD |
60kg driver? BMWs - driven by women and midgets
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