Grampa
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Another new car musing (part 2) - JCW drivenYou may recall shortlist is Megane 250, BMW 125 Coupe, Scirocco, wait for next Astra VXR, or as an outsider a Cooper S Works.
Thought I'd get the drive of the outsider out of the way first. Wow, did I change my mind. I was worried that it wouldn't be fast enough - the last one I drove felt nowhere near as strong as the Astra, but that was when it was a dealer fit power boost, this one was a 'proper' JCW.
Even though our normal sales girl wasn't there - best car sales person I've ever dealt with, but she's on maternity leave (son born on the same day and same ward as my granddaughter), still had a really nice greeting from the new girl. Admired the Astra telling me her brother has one and she loves it, but thought I might enjoy the JCW a little more.
First surprise was how much sharper the handling feels than the standard Cooper, second was the engine - like a train, just pulls and pulls. At one point just before the road opened up into three lanes up a long hill, a standard Cooper S came up behind me. "This will be interesting" I thought. I guess the S driver thought so too by the way he was lining up to try and pass the slow traffic too. He must have been in 2nd too judging by the way we both took off, but his headlights (foul day today) just got smaller and smaller in the rear view mirror - great, the Works is definitely the one to go for then.
The demo was loaded up as only MINI know how - yours to drive away for just £31,995!! - looks awful too - black with red stripes over the bonnet and roof with black wheels. As you'd expect at that price, it had the Recaros - which do make a difference and I would quite like them, but I remembered they were a £3000 option on the Mk1 Cooper S. Thought I'd ask just the same. £2000 came the reply, then just as I was thinking "is that too extravagant?" she said "each!!"
So the seats are out of the window, but the car itself is most definitely not now an outsider.
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"him"
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Was the other Cooper S a turbocharged, or supercharged one?
How do you think it performed compared to the VXR, I would imagine it would feel more "urgent", but was it as quick? Try as I might I cannot bring myself to like the MINI, it tries too hard IMO, it is undoubtedly a good car, just not for me...
(plus it has a turbo, which is a bad thing...) 
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Twelfth Monkey
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Re: Another new car musing (part 2) - JCW driven | Grampa wrote: | | The demo was loaded up as only MINI know how - yours to drive away for just £31,995!! |
£32k for a MINI. Fuck me, there must be one born every minute...
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Grampa
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Re: Another new car musing (part 2) - JCW driven | "him" wrote: | Was the other Cooper S a turbocharged, or supercharged one?
How do you think it performed compared to the VXR, I would imagine it would feel more "urgent", but was it as quick? Try as I might I cannot bring myself to like the MINI, it tries too hard IMO, it is undoubtedly a good car, just not for me...
(plus it has a turbo, which is a bad thing...) |
The previous one was also a Mk2 so turbo. I'd say it was quicker than the VXR, didn't really feel more urgent than the Astra, just feels 'stronger', very wet roads today and booting it out of a corner felt more surefooted - although the front tyres on the Astra are past their best - would probably change them at this stage if the end of the contract wasn't in sight.
| Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | Grampa wrote: | | The demo was loaded up as only MINI know how - yours to drive away for just £31,995!! |
£32k for a MINI. Fuck me, there must be one born every minute... |
More often than one a minute I'd say and bear in mind that's a used one - apparently £30k+ MINI sales aren't unusual - but at that price you're getting pretty close to the cost of a boggo JCW (which isn't exactly wanting) PLUS a boggo One!
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Twelfth Monkey
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So that should be £32k for a second hand MINI? Haha!
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Blarno
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More proof of a German sense of humour...
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Grampa
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If people are daft enough to pay it, you can hardly blame them for charging them - I know I would!
I guess it's a policy to make the sales more profitable - by the time I got back the sales girl had prepared a quote 'as a normal spec' which included 10 extras worth £2520 that I wouldn't want - as it comes with metallic paint will do nicely thanks.
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Nice Guy Eddie
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I'd struggle to justify the cost seeing as the Clio Cup is supposed to piss all over the JCW dynamically and for half the price.
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Blarno
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| Nice Guy Eddie wrote: | | I'd struggle to justify the cost seeing as the Clio Cup is supposed to piss all over the JCW dynamically and for half the price. |
I'd expect the majority of Mini buyers aren't interested in the dynamics. They just want a Mini.
Me? I'd buy the Clio and an E39 M5 for roundabout action.
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simonp
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Who's gonna buy one seat, ffs!
As for price I went on the Golf GTI configurator last night and you can get one of those up to £34K.
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franki68
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I love the minis...but 32k for a mini of any sort is taking the piss a fraction.
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Grampa
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| Nice Guy Eddie wrote: | | I'd struggle to justify the cost seeing as the Clio Cup is supposed to piss all over the JCW dynamically and for half the price. |
Only driven a standard 192. No doubt on a track the Clio may be superior but as a road car when both offer better dynamics than the visibility on most roads would ever let you safely exploit and there are other considerations such as comfort on a motorway and overtaking ability the MINI is leagues ahead - and whilst it is more expensive at £20,575 for the standard JCW it's a long way short of being twice the price of the Clio.
| simonp wrote: | | Who's gonna buy one seat, ffs! |
Exactly what I thought - I didn't ask if you actually could.
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Matt
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The crazy prices are back again, just like the early 2000s.
I'm glad I prefer older cars, because these prices for making cars more entertaining than the factory-softened models are outrageous.
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Guitar Zero
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If you get one - take it to Funkpish performance for new dampers, a tit shifter and a 700 bhp bi turbo conversion.
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"him"
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| Guitar Zero wrote: | | If you get one - take it to Funkpish performance for new dampers, a tit shifter and a 700 bhp bi turbo conversion. |
Is that the stage 1 setup?
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Blarno
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Yes. Stage II fits the Hi-Wanky rotator splint. Good for another 400 Bhp.
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Matt
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Stage 3 includes unobtanium blocks and cylinder heads, presumably?
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Nice Guy Eddie
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| Grampa wrote: | | Nice Guy Eddie wrote: | | I'd struggle to justify the cost seeing as the Clio Cup is supposed to piss all over the JCW dynamically and for half the price. |
Only driven a standard 192. No doubt on a track the Clio may be superior but as a road car when both offer better dynamics than the visibility on most roads would ever let you safely exploit and there are other considerations such as comfort on a motorway and overtaking ability the MINI is leagues ahead - and whilst it is more expensive at £20,575 for the standard JCW it's a long way short of being twice the price of the Clio.
| simonp wrote: | | Who's gonna buy one seat, ffs! |
Exactly what I thought - I didn't ask if you actually could. |
I always find the thing that holds me back now is ride quality, this is why the Golf pisses all over the Civic I had because although there wasn't a great deal of difference in terms of power where in the Golf you could keep your foot planted in the Civic the car would take of over bumps and spin its wheels through lake of traction. For that reason I'd still take the Renault as the Cooper S I drove on 17's bounced around far too much. I'm sure If I went to see Humph he could sort me out a brand new Cup for around 13k whilst the the Mini is 20k odd and then needs a load of options like the Chilli pack sticking on if its to hold its value. The Renault might depreciate more but at that price who cares.
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simonp
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You also get a boot that holds more than 1 shopping bag, too!
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Grampa
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| Nice Guy Eddie wrote: | | then needs a load of options like the Chilli pack |
'Needed' (i.e. it has lots of the things you'd like) for the Cooper, but the Chilli Pack for the JCW is just made up of pointless extras that I don't think many 2nd hand buyers would look for - just about everything in the Cooper's Chilli Pack is standard on the JCW.
It can also be had without the 'sports' suspension - there was nothing 'bouncy' about the ride of the one I drove today - no where near as bad as my Mk1 Cooper which did have the sports suspension.
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GonnaBreakABuggy
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| Matt wrote: | | Stage 3 includes unobtanium blocks and cylinder heads, presumably? |
The first rule of stage 3, is that nobody talks about stage 3.
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Turbonutter
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| "him" wrote: |
(plus it has a turbo, which is a bad thing...) |
Pah! Burn the infidel...... 
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GonnaBreakABuggy
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He speaketh the truth.
Keep the hairdryers indoors ;)
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Turbonutter
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| GonnaBreakABuggy wrote: | He speaketh the truth.
Keep the hairdryers indoors ;) |
Sheer twaddle 
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Rodge
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For 32k, I could buy a decent E46 M3, and another one too......
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Blarno
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Put the 2 engines together....Et Voila: Macca F1!
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GonnaBreakABuggy
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For 32K, you could have 4 rotary-engined buggies....
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Blarno
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Or a buggy with 4 rotary engines?
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GonnaBreakABuggy
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I like the way you think....
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gonnabuildabuggy
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| GonnaBreakABuggy wrote: | | Matt wrote: | | Stage 3 includes unobtanium blocks and cylinder heads, presumably? |
The first rule of stage 3, is that nobody talks about stage 3. |
£32K for a Mini - proof that some people don't have brains.
For £32K I, well I wouldn't, I'd buy a nice E39 M5, and E46 M3 Cab and something fun for weekends, and still have £10K left over.
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Martin
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Whilst £32k for a MINI is absolute madness, it sounds interesting. Have they managed to sort out the torque steer that you get with the std S and a whole lot more with the Works pack fitted?
The Clio Cup is great value, but some people just couldn't put up with the quality and the cheap interior. Whilst it's perfectly OK for the cost/performance on offer so makes sense in terms of value, it wouldn't be enough for me. The quality and solid engineering feel you get with a MINI is worth the extra. Not that mine was a lot more than a similar age Clio would have been and it's a lot better equipped as well as all the other benefits (appreciating that the MINI is a marmite car).
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simonp
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The good thing about the Cooper S is that there are plenty of firms out there who can relieve you of some readies and make it at least as fast as a JCW at a later date, if you so wish. You can't do that with the Clio with it's n/a engine.
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Blarno
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| GonnaBreakABuggy wrote: | | I like the way you think.... |
Obvious innit? 1 for each wheel!
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Grampa
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| gonnabuildabuggy wrote: | | £32K for a Mini - proof that some people don't have brains. |
Is that any different to people spending £5k on a watch that offers no more 'performance' than a £100 watch, or people spending £1000 on a suit, or £000's on trainers?
£32k for a MINI might be a hell of a lot more than I'd spend but I'd consider it nowhere near as daft as many other purchases - at least it's only 50% more than you really need to spend, not 5000% more!
| Martin wrote: | | Whilst £32k for a MINI is absolute madness, it sounds interesting. Have they managed to sort out the torque steer that you get with the std S. |
Only driven a standard S on straightish roads so only able to compare straight line performance, but for the power that's going through the wheels, I thought the torque steer relatively well controlled - and bear in mind that £20,575 will get you the same driving experience as the £32k one - the extras were things like the seats, stripes, wheels, computer system (now seems to be similar to i-drive), sat nav, etc etc
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GonnaBreakABuggy
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^^Yeah, but I think the same about those people too
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ALF
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Yes you can waste silly money on other things, but £32k for a mini does seem madness. Not much else would depreciate quite as fast as a new car, either. There is pleasure in owning a new car, but surely not that much pleasure - not in this instance when a standard Cooper S is so bloody good, and depreciates so little.
£32k.... That could be a mint RS4. An E39 M5 and a Caterham R300. A Lotus Exige S2 and a SH Cooper S... the list goes on.
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Grampa
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Just to clarify IMO the standard Works is definitely worth the extra over the standard S - it's the £11k worth of extras on the demo car that I wouldn't get - none of which (apart from the way-too-expensive seats) added to the car - it actually looked like a dog's dinner!
The second hand options, although a good buy on the face of it aren't an option for me - this car is all about monthly outgoings so I wouldn't be able to afford the second hand option.
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DradusContact
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Which car are you going to replace, the Astra?
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Grampa
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Yes - contract is up in March.
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Jasper
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Have you had a spin in a Scirocco yet?
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"him"
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I suspect the Scirocco would be a bit "dull" in comparison?
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Nice Guy Eddie
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When is the Scirocco/ Golf R due to be launched. They looked yummy in the press shots.
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Grampa
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| Jasper wrote: | | Have you had a spin in a Scirocco yet? |
Not yet
| "him" wrote: | | I suspect the Scirocco would be a bit "dull" in comparison? |
That's what I'm thinking - compared to the Astra and the MINI...
| Nice Guy Eddie wrote: | | When is the Scirocco/ Golf R due to be launched. They looked yummy in the press shots. |
... so that's what I also want to know!
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Grampa
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| Jasper wrote: | | Have you had a spin in a Scirocco yet? |
As luck would have it I was parked next to one at lunch time - great looking car, but the interior is still a concern - the leather seats look fantastic but the dash looks really cheap after the Astra - something I can live with if I like the rest of the car but still takes it into the 'I'm not sure' category when I've yet to get past the showroom.
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Turbonutter
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Re: Another new car musing (part 2) - JCW driven | Grampa wrote: |
The demo was loaded up as only MINI know how - yours to drive away for just £31,995!! - looks awful too - black with red stripes over the bonnet and roof with black wheels. As you'd expect at that price, it had the Recaros - which do make a difference and I would quite like them, but I remembered they were a £3000 option on the Mk1 Cooper S. Thought I'd ask just the same. £2000 came the reply, then just as I was thinking "is that too extravagant?" she said "each!!"
So the seats are out of the window, but the car itself is most definitely not now an outsider. |
The seats are a shocker at £2k each over the standard chairs.
I'd like to try a Mk2 Works - my wife has a '55' R53 'S' ( later box ) and we got an invite to try the standard R56 turbo when it was launched. It felt more refined than our still quite new old shape ( it's only just clicked onto 19k at 4 years old ). I did prefer the seats on the newer one as well....I can never get really comfy on a long journey to the coast but my wife finds them fine on her commute. Being as we'd had a new Mini off the dealer it's one of the few times i've been let out un-escorted on a test drive and I did get a bit of a chance to push it quite hard. The Works sounds like good fun. Had one bobbing along after me on the local bypass/islands the other night and I slowed to let him past - he set a good pace through the islands and on the straights as well
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TimR
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| Jasper wrote: | | Have you had a spin in a Scirocco yet? |
The more Sciroccos I see the more I dislike them with that 'heavy hips' look.
There's something about the curve of the front bit of bonnet that I don't like either.
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Jasper
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I do think they are quite colour sensitive. I fact I only really like them in white and red.
Although the Scirocco R looks fab in Blue.
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Matt
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I've seen just the one Scirocco in the lime green and that suits it, but then my level of taste isn't most people's!
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Boxer6
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| Matt wrote: | | I've seen just the one Scirocco in the lime green and that suits it, but then my level of taste isn't most people's! |
Really? Can't say I'd noticed!!
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Turbonutter
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| Grampa wrote: | | It can also be had without the 'sports' suspension - there was nothing 'bouncy' about the ride of the one I drove today - no where near as bad as my Mk1 Cooper which did have the sports suspension. |
..'the best handling hot Mini I've driven including the mk1 Works GP'.
Matt Saunders' (Autocar) opinion of an 02 reg Cooper S running on lightweight Speedlines and Toyo T1-Rs in a feature on 2nd hand hot hatches in today's issue.
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"him"
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| Turbonutter wrote: | | Matt Saunders' (Autocar) opinion of an 02 reg Cooper S running on lightweight Speedlines and Toyo T1-Rs in a feature on 2nd hand hot hatches in today's issue. |
Was it running 16" wheels or 'tarts' 17's?
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Turbonutter
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| "him" wrote: | | Turbonutter wrote: | | Matt Saunders' (Autocar) opinion of an 02 reg Cooper S running on lightweight Speedlines and Toyo T1-Rs in a feature on 2nd hand hot hatches in today's issue. |
Was it running 16" wheels or 'tarts' 17's? |
I couldn't be sure chap. They look like they might be 17s.
We've got 16" runflats on ours but I'd like to try normals. Maybe I'll inherit the car in a few years when my wife fancies a change - it would be OK for my commute
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Grampa
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Time's going on, so try a Scirocco I thought when I was passing the dealer last week (by the way Matt, my choice would be Viper Green too). None in stock, but the sales girl owned one so she let me have a look round - the interior seems better than I remembered, wouldn't be taking a drop after the Vauxhall after all, and it's nice in cloth which is good as the leather is a £1600 option.
Test drive of a R? - no chance - you can order one but none are being made available to dealers as demos until the first customer cars have been delivered.
So a test drive in a GT then? "We'll have to get one down from one of our other dealerships", and it's 4 months from order to delivery, so March 1st will be a struggle.
Get a phone call today - not one anywhere in the group which means all dealers within a 90 mile radius - hopefully they'll have one in a "few weeks" - she did offer me a go in a diesel Scirocco and a Golf GTi so I could get an idea of how the GT would be, which I declined.
Surprisingly it's also £30 a month cheaper than the MINI, but I can't get a quote on an R yet either.
Thought getting a new car was supposed to be fun.
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Matt
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I don't like the sound of that; no demos until the customer's have theirs. Whilst it's possible to believe that Volkswagen are rightly proud of their new product, I'd not buy a car without testing it first.
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DaveGibson
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| Grampa wrote: | | ...........Thought getting a new car was supposed to be fun. |
I thought they were desperate to get any sales but it doesn't sound like it.
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Eff One
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See if you can do a deal - hire a Scirocco from Avis for a day on the basis that the dealership refunds you if you order one from them.
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Grampa
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I had a quick look round to see if there were any used ones for sale nearby but no.
The hire thing is a good idea - at the moment though the Megane is still in the running so I could well get lumbered with the cost, but I will still have had a nice car for the day - I'll look into it. Ta.
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TimR
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| Matt wrote: | | I don't like the sound of that; no demos until the customer's have theirs. Whilst it's possible to believe that Volkswagen are rightly proud of their new product, I'd not buy a car without testing it first. |
We came across this problem trying to get a test drive of the Grande Punto Sporting diesel when it first came out.
There were no demos at any garage in the whole of Arnold Clark's empire of shite (Fiat for most of Scotland and a lot of England too I think).
I would never fork out money for a car I hadn't driven.
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Mark
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| Grampa wrote: | Time's going on, so try a Scirocco I thought when I was passing the dealer last week (by the way Matt, my choice would be Viper Green too). None in stock, but the sales girl owned one so she let me have a look round - the interior seems better than I remembered, wouldn't be taking a drop after the Vauxhall after all, and it's nice in cloth which is good as the leather is a £1600 option.
Test drive of a R? - no chance - you can order one but none are being made available to dealers as demos until the first customer cars have been delivered.
So a test drive in a GT then? "We'll have to get one down from one of our other dealerships", and it's 4 months from order to delivery, so March 1st will be a struggle.
Get a phone call today - not one anywhere in the group which means all dealers within a 90 mile radius - hopefully they'll have one in a "few weeks" - she did offer me a go in a diesel Scirocco and a Golf GTi so I could get an idea of how the GT would be, which I declined.
Surprisingly it's also £30 a month cheaper than the MINI, but I can't get a quote on an R yet either.
Thought getting a new car was supposed to be fun. |
A mate has had his Scirocco (2.0 TSi in Red) for over a year - he loves it - but is thinking about getting rid because his dealer is willing to take it back off him and give him all his money back.
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simonp
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If they're so popular ( a mystery to me personally) why do you hardly ever see them on the road. I suspect VW are doing a BMW and making sure they're in short supply to keep used prices high.
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Mark
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| simonp wrote: | | If they're so popular why do you hardly ever see them on the road. I suspect VW are doing a BMW and making sure they're in short supply to keep used prices high. |
Bingo. Hence the residuals.
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