JohnC
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AMG C63Well not driven just yet. A 2nd hand car dealer client of mine called me from the car shortly after picking it up today.
In his words "you simply must have a go in this - it's the first car i've driven that slows down when you put your foot down". He then demonstrated with a few presses of the loud pedal which did nothing but light up the rear wheels.
The car is fully loaded with every conceivable extra, has only got 4,000 miles on the clock and was regd on 1 September 2008. He only paid just over £40,000!
He is bringing it over in the next day or two so I'll let you know how it goes!
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garry
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I've driven an e55. I thought it was generally crap apart from the most fantastic sounding engine - It sounds something like a ww2 spitfire.
Have fun
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M.
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Piers and I heard an C63 on full bore in Switzerland. Spitfire or similar is a good description of those noise.
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Eff One
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Re: AMG C63 | JohnC wrote: | | The car is fully loaded with every conceivable extra, has only got 4,000 miles on the clock and was regd on 1 September 2008. He only paid just over £40,000! |
Christ, they're about £55k new, aren't they?
Perceived quality looks sky-high and I like the fact that Merc seem finally to have made it a decent driver's car. But I'd be a lot more impressed if it weighed 200kg less with a similar PWR and could manage over 25mpg.
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kraftwerk
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| Eff One wrote: | | JohnC wrote: | | The car is fully loaded with every conceivable extra, has only got 4,000 miles on the clock and was regd on 1 September 2008. He only paid just over £40,000! |
Christ, they're about £55k new, aren't they?
Perceived quality looks sky-high and I like the fact that Merc seem finally to have made it a decent driver's car. But I'd be a lot more impressed if it weighed 200kg less with a similar PWR and could manage over 25mpg. |
Mmm, I'd love a go in one of those.
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ALF
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I love these. Great looks, incredible interior (makes the M3's look like a poverty spec 318), yummy engine. Unfortunately the estate is a bit plain and it's auto-only. Would absolutely love to see what it's like - back to back with an M3 and IS-F, naturally  . Let us know what you think...
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franki68
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| garry wrote: | I've driven an e55. I thought it was generally crap apart from the most fantastic sounding engine - It sounds something like a ww2 spitfire.
Have fun |
spot on I drove 2 as the first one I tested was so bad I thought it was a dog,so I asked the dealer to get me another one to try and it was awful too.
The c63 is however the dogs bollocks and a car on my list of cars to get when I grow up.
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ALF
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I saw one parking recently and was suprised how quiet it was at idle. I wonder if (like most such cars these days) if it has some kind of bypass valve to make big noise when going for it, but pass the regulations.
I love that bassy spitfire noise that AMG's like the SL55 AMG make - I wonder if it is considered less antisocial than the shrieks some cars make, or even a really chavved-up hatch. It tends to be not that loud a sound, and somehow smooth and cultured. I prefer wailing high-pitched V8's like the 355's but I bet they don't go down well the neighbours and the tutting classes.
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Twelfth Monkey
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If it's got every conceivable extra, it may well have been £60k, rather than £55k. List is just over £50k, I think.
Working on £55k, that equates to depreciation of just under £4k per month. That's horrendous. Imagine each day going out to drive it and realising that you've pissed £120-odd up the wall before including any of the costs of actually driving the bugger.
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JohnC
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Bl**dy hell, or such similar expression. I have just had about 30 minutes in the hot seat.
Setting off in a 30mph limit it is immediately apparent that this car could land you in jail very quickly. At idle it has a deep menacing thrum from the exhausts but is silent inside. On the move it is very responsive to small throttle movements and feels no worse than mine over the bumps around town. In fact I would say it dealt with most bumps, potholes and drain covers better than mine.
The interior is nicely finished and I love the look of the instruments with the needle on the speedo being a moving orange band around the outside of the dial with the computer readouts in the middle. The steering wheel feels special but the finger grooves about half way up the wheel might irritate me after a while since they make holding the wheel largely a one position affair.
The car has paddles on the wheel which I am quite used to since my car has them. However with the performance on offer I just let the box do the work whilst I concentrated on the view half a mile ahead.
In my short time in this car it made mine feel pedestrian. The low down grunt is at least the equal of mine and from 2000 rpm it just starts to build into something extraordinary as it scrambles towards the 7000 + red line. To be honest, when the needle flies round to 7000rpm, things were happening so quickly I kept my eyes on the road and the mirror.
I have driven a 997 C4S and a few other fast cars but the way the C63 exerts its power is completely different. It is just brutal. I have never been in an M6 but I suspect it must be similar. It is much less cultured than a 911 when you hit the accelerator hard: it just gives you a massive kick and then spears you into the distance. On the public road with other cars around this is quite a scary experience since it feels as though the car puts on about 40 or 50 mph within a second or two of hitting the accelerator in almost any gear. The sound also makes the experience intoxicating and startles sheep and nearby drivers. It sounds fantastic from inside but I get the feeling from seeing the look on other driver's faces that it sound like the start of an earthquake as the engine erupts. There is a touch of Nascar thunder in the sound also.
I won't pretend to say the steering felt anything other than connected to the wheels. The roads I was on didn't allow me to explore any limits of cornering or handling although the limits of adhesion of the rear tyres were tested several times on what was largely a dry surface. The steering did feel a touch light but still communicated some sense of what the wheels were doing. A much longer test would be needed to know how the steering would feel in different conditions but it didn't really make an impact on me so it can't be too bad since concentrating on where everything is pointing is a major pastime in this car.
Slowing down and returning to the office at modest pace the car is a very comfortable place to be. The front seats are very comfortable being both firm and supportive but they are pretty sculpted and wouldn't suit those of larger proportion.
I am still trying to get my thoughts together on this car. It is immensely fast and is an event in itself just hearing that big engine rev. It rides well, has a nice finish and would win most drag races without breaking sweat, even with 4 up. I just had the feeling though that unless I drove in the dead of night or on the German Autobahn I wouldn't get within a mile of this car's capabilities on the road. Its natural cruising speed felt as though it was well in excess of 100mph and using it way below those speeds just feels like a waste.
However as a long distance cruiser with the ability to pass anything in the way, I haven't driven anything that comes close to this before and it is highly likely I won't drive anything like it in the future.
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"him"
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It sounds superb... dare I ask what it does to the gallon?
As you own auto yourself, do you think the gearbox it was suited the car or would the V8 work better with a manual?
Please report back once you have spent some more time with the car, with some photos please?
Care to guess its 30-60 time?
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ALF
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Sounds great! Interesting to see what one of us made of it since it universally received such good reviews.
I'll have a saloon in black for Christmas, please. No need to wrap it...
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Parm
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Nice write-up John. My uncle is bringing his C63 AMG round on Xmas day, so I'll get to have a ride in it (I doubt he'll let me drive it unless he's seen my Dear Santa letter...)
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Parm
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Re: AMG C63 | JohnC wrote: |
The car is fully loaded with every conceivable extra, has only got 4,000 miles on the clock and was regd on 1 September 2008. He only paid just over £40,000! |
That's savage depreciation assuming it was ~ 55K new. I note used approved '08 Lexus IS-F's can be had for near 40K too. I wonder how much these cars will be worth in 12 months time. I reckon near or possibly under 30k.
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JohnC
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I think it was virtually a £60K car but my dealer reckons we won't see such massive falls again and that prices will begin to firm.
"him", the car has more torque than your average tug boat and hardly needs any gears. I think given the type of car, the auto is well suited to it: I have no doubt that if you changed down to 2nd or 3rd at about 50 or 60 and floored it, all you would do is light up the rears. The auto tempers this a bit. I would think that the auto is just as quick as any manual because it just launches itself towards the horizon regardless of which gear you are in. A manual might be more fun on the track but on the road you would be changing into top at about 60mph which would mean a fair amount of changing up and down the box, unless they just reverted to a 4 speed box!
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PR
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Sounds like great fun, John. I'd love to drive one of those.
Given the choice, I think I'd have an M3 saloon, though.
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Eff One
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I pass one of these in black on my way home (walking) most days... and dare I say it, the styling doesn't quite work in the metal. There's something vaguely cartoonish about it, particularly the rear tailpipes which look a bit Halfords. I do love the interior, though.
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Twelfth Monkey
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| JohnC wrote: | | I think it was virtually a £60K car but my dealer reckons we won't see such massive falls again and that prices will begin to firm. |
I am trying to find a way of saying something other than 'he would say that, wouldn't he'!
It really does sound like quite an engine...
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Blarno
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A C63 passed me in town a few days back, sounded rather nice. But, I hate the rear bumper. The diffuser protrudes too much, and the obviously stuck on chromey pipes protrude even further, giving it a Jimmy Hill look to the rear.
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JohnC
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He's coming back over to see me next Monday, so I will try and get another go.
Twelfth, I think there might be some truth in what he says about prices though. There is still a demand (albeit small) for cars of this type and the numbers being brought in are being cut back. He has already had 3 enquiries and is confident that he will sell it at a decent profit. He doesn't think he would have had even one enquiry a couple of months ago.
The engine is epic and excites in both sound and performance but it was reading 15 point something in the mpg stakes. It was an experience that I will remember for a long time. The whole car is an "event".
I have never driven an RS4 though and I would think its power would be more readily accessable on a day to day basis.
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ALF
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It seems logical to assume production will be turned down on top end models from the R32 golfs to the C63 AMG's of this world, and that manufacturers will sell a lot fewer new, but not for the crazy discounts we've seen recently where they have had oversupply (like the R32s). one wonders how many really bespoke "halo" models there will be in future, too, if they are not selling - they cost a lot to develop and make.
However, you've got to expect SH prices to go one way only... especially for cars sold prior to around now, as they sold in such high volumes.
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Twelfth Monkey
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That last sentence is what I was really trying to say. Prices won't fall at the same rate, but fall they still will.
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Parm
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well my uncle has just made my xmas. He let me drive his c63! I totally concur with johns comments. The car is epic. It's the fastest thing i've driven by some margin and sounded brutal. Needless to say i was grinning from ear to ear afterwards. I still am. I'll post some pics in a few days.
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JohnC
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Well, the C63 came back to see me yesterday and I had another 30 minutes in it but this time on slightly damp roads that have been gritted regularly for a good few days.
I was able to concentrate a bit more on what the car was like to drive and to try the flappy paddles. Using the paddles certainly lets you change up and down the box seamlessly and gives instant go when you need it.
The engine pulls strongly from low revs although not as strongly as I imagined first time round. However from about 2,500rpm it really begins to pull. Around 4,500 to 5,000 there is another significant step up and the rev counter just flies round to 7000+rpm.
On yesterday's roads the power delivery gave me all sorts of problems everytime it hit the high 4000 revs, in every gear, the rear wheels lost traction. At times like this, anything with half the power and 4wd would be significantly faster. In fact something with 2wd and half the power would also be a good bit quicker. I found this aspect of the car very frustrating and found myself thinking that something I could use to near 100% of its abilities nearly all of the time would be much more satisfying.
I have to temper my negativity though and say that when you find a bit of road dry enough to transmit all of the power to the road the feeling is just fantastic: the engine bellows and when the revs pass 4,500 the acceleration is truly serious all the way to about 7,200rpm.
Having had three tail out moments (in a straight line) at relatively quick speeds I backed off and cruised back considering myself lucky to have driven the car and not wanting to be the one to bend it. In this guise it is a very nice place to be with the engine gently warbling in the background. The instruments, carpets and fantastic AMG embossed leather seats all look every inch part of a £60K car, but the plastic on the top of the dash and along the tops of the doors looked decidedly low rent - very similar to the plastic on the dash of my Mum's Skoda and nowhere near as nice as a BMW or and Audi. It is a strange mix since the seats are amazing to look at and sit in and the controls and instruments very expensive looking and feeling.
This car was black metallic with cream leather and it was the most tasteful combination I have ever seen in a Merc. The dash and carpets are black and the cream leather only covers the seat facings, the door handles and the middle section of the door cards. Black stitching on the seats adds another touch of class. Very very nice.
The ride was as good as I remembered and felt just like any taught road car should: it was firm but not jarring and the dampers controlled every movement of the body with a cohesive authority that left you feeling they would never be overwhelmed regardless of what was thrown at them.
Economy was never going to be a strongpoint for a car with AMG 6.3 stamped on the rev counter but a quick check when we got back to the office showed a very worrying 11.8mpg. This is not a car for someone who worries about fuel costs.
My feeling is that the traction issues make this a much less driveable proposition than say an RS4 but if you drive long distances in mostly dry conditions it will reward with a smile inducing exhaust note and a massive surge that builds from 4,400rpm to 7,200rpm, every time you put your foot down regardless of what gear you are in.
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Racing
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Like the write-up! Sounds like fun.
Interestingly, when I testdrove a C320 CDi, it was on cold greasy roads and I had the back out twice on that as well. Never really thought of C-classes as oversteer-merchants!
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Parm
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Some pix of the C63 that I drove on Xmas day. I didn't even try and get the back end out although through one round about I idid sense the rear twitch.
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Jasper
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It is a mean looking weapon.
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Twelfth Monkey
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John, this might be a dumb question. Were the electronic nannies engaged when you experienced traction issues and the high speed-straight line-tail out moments?
I think I must be a bit of a wuss, because they sound deeply unattractive to me. As I said before though, sounds like quite an engine. I can't help but wonder what its installation in an RS4 would be like.
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PR
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Tail-out moments are fine as long as they appear predictably, at the driver's bidding, rather than suddenly and with no prior warning!
I am very jealous of the two of you who have blagged a go in these machines. As Michael said, we were treated to the full sound and vision show by a bloke driving a white one with huge, black multi-spoke alloys on the motorway in Switzerland. The bark from the exhausts was quite something as he smoked off up the road ahead of us.
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JohnC
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Twelfth, yes they were. They seem to allow quite a bit of leeway.
When we arrived at a roundabout, we switched the aids off to see what happened. A brief blip of the throttle to about 3000rpm and all that happened was the wheels spun. Even with TC switched on the same manoeuvre had the TC light flashing away and the progress was far from speedy.
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Matt
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For all my BMW M leanings, the new M3 can't hold a candle to the C63's engine and mega sound quality.
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Parm
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The engine is something else. Even on start-up it sounded ferocious. Cruising noise was well restrained and comfortable, but the slightest blip on the throttle seemed to wake the beast up as it growled and then roared as the pedal progresively met metal. It gathers pace in an equally agressive manner. These are the things that I'll remember most about the car - the electrifying pace and armageddon soundtrack
I did ask my uncle about fuel economy. He simply replied - "you don't buy a car like this and then worry about fuel costs"... Nuff said.
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Stuntman
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I still prefer the M3 Saloon. OK, the engine in the Merc is epic, but I'm sure I'd enjoy the M3 experience in terms of the ride and handling a lot more.
Wet-weather traction in the M3 appears tricky too - only Car Magazine seems to think it's well balanced, Autocar and PC suggest it's a bit of a handful in the wet. Evo, I think, says it's fun!
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ALF
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It's difficult to discuss traction at this time of year. For sure 4WD is the best way from A to B in the wet and right through the winter, but come spring I'm sure the Merc could deploy it's power fully.
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PR
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Even my car struggles to put its power down cleanly on the gunky roads we get at this time of year, and it's hardly brimming with C63 levels of oomph...
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Mark
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| PR wrote: | | Even my car struggles to put its power down cleanly on the gunky roads we get at this time of year, and it's hardly brimming with C63 levels of oomph... |
It makes "driving" more interesting and enjoyable (for me), though. Not to mention fun. Just being able to mash your right foot into the carpet without thinking about what you're doing holds no appeal. Probably why 4 wheel drive stuff is of very little interest to me.
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PR
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| Mark wrote: | | It makes "driving" more interesting and enjoyable (for me), though. Not to mention fun. . |
Oh, I agree. It's partly why I love driving the 130 so much. It has more power than tractive grip and requires a diligent touch to avoid becoming messy. Unless you want it to become messy, in which case it will happily oblige!
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"him"
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| ALF wrote: | | It's difficult to discuss traction at this time of year. For sure 4WD is the best way from A to B in the wet and right through the winter, but come spring I'm sure the Merc could deploy it's power fully. |
John Barker suggested that on a dry road even the 720BHP Brabus Bullit could get its power down "cleanly"...
"...but get the Bullit rolling along in second or third and, incredibly, the rear tyres can often deal with all the engine has to give. It’s extraordinary. Not just the neck-straining, cheek-contorting shove that seems to scoop you up and hurl you up the road, but the fact that the Bullit stays arrow-straight and composed as it surges forward."
So I would imagine a "piffling" 451bhp would be fine! 
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Twelfth Monkey
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| Mark wrote: | | It makes "driving" more interesting and enjoyable (for me), though. Not to mention fun. Just being able to mash your right foot into the carpet without thinking about what you're doing holds no appeal. Probably why 4 wheel drive stuff is of very little interest to me. |
I'm sure there's some truth there, but it seems to me that there is a huge number of 4wd cars that offer enjoyment and usability, from the rice-rockets to the GTR, RS4 and R8, up to the likes of the Gallardo. Driving such cars well requires rather more than a heavy right foot that you slightly dismissively suggest.
I'd find being unable to use the available power a far bigger frustration. As with so many things, it's a good job we're not all the same.
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Rodge
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| Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | Mark wrote: | | It makes "driving" more interesting and enjoyable (for me), though. Not to mention fun. Just being able to mash your right foot into the carpet without thinking about what you're doing holds no appeal. Probably why 4 wheel drive stuff is of very little interest to me. |
I'm sure there's some truth there, but it seems to me that there is a huge number of 4wd cars that offer enjoyment and usability, from the rice-rockets to the GTR, RS4 and R8, up to the likes of the Gallardo. Driving such cars well requires rather more than a heavy right foot that you slightly dismissively suggest.
I'd find being unable to use the available power a far bigger frustration. As with so many things, it's a good job we're not all the same. |
Driving such cars in the right conditions can also be immense fun. As a passenger in a mates Imprezza Turbo years ago, He drove down a very muddy road at speeds that my Focus would have put us in the ditch, yet felt very secure all the while.
Great write up chaps, I'm properly jealous.
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Mark
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| Twelfth Monkey wrote: | | Mark wrote: | | It makes "driving" more interesting and enjoyable (for me), though. Not to mention fun. Just being able to mash your right foot into the carpet without thinking about what you're doing holds no appeal. Probably why 4 wheel drive stuff is of very little interest to me. |
I'm sure there's some truth there, but it seems to me that there is a huge number of 4wd cars that offer enjoyment and usability, from the rice-rockets to the GTR, RS4 and R8, up to the likes of the Gallardo. Driving such cars well requires rather more than a heavy right foot that you slightly dismissively suggest.
I'd find being unable to use the available power a far bigger frustration. As with so many things, it's a good job we're not all the same. |
The models you mention would possibly be even more scintillating in rear wheel drive form.
I didn’t intend to be dismissive - but “driving well” (for me) also has quite a lot to do with getting the power down using finesse. I also find it fun. Four wheel drive takes much of that away.
Yep, thank goodness we’re not all the same.
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Twelfth Monkey
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| Mark wrote: | | The models you mention would possibly be even more scintillating in rear wheel drive form. |
Whilst it's possible that you are right, I would be surprised. I can understand the appeal of slightly more grip (although it's really only traction we are talking about, of course) than power, but when the point is reached where a car has genuinely questionable competence with traction, I fail to see it as a virtue. 4wd seems a far better solution than relying on electronic nannying as is often the case with old stylee AMG models with eight zillion torks. As a daily driver, I wouldn't want the sort of power I use without 4wd.
Difficult to get the point across, but if you ever get the chance to drive something like the RS4 daily for an extended period of time, you may begin to understand where I am coming from. You certainly don't feel like you are on autopilot.
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JohnC
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For winter, I wouldn't want to live with the frustration the C63 would bring with its lack of traction. It would be quite possible to drive the C63 pretty quickly without losing traction but the Civic Type R or 330i would be past you.
The controls on the C63 would have to be changed significamtly to give the very delicate feel you would need to accelerate just within the traction limits on a winter road. For me, not being able to accelerate at the car's full potential this side of 100mph would leave me with great frustration.
The car, in these conditions, reminded me of a tuned TVR Cerbera which was owned by a guy I loosely knew, who was of questionable occupation.
Driving to the airport early one morning we were passed by the Cerbera and stuck to his tail, an aggressively driven 1.9 205 GTi which had probably been cut up by the Cerbera at some earlier point, knowing the individual involved.
As the pair headed up a dual carriageway, away from a roundabout, the Cerbera suddenly twitched sideways under power requiring a slight backing off the throttle before more throttle and more sideways. I can't remember how many times it happened but the 205 darted up his inside and got past. Sometimes outright power isn't everything.
Half a mile later the Cerbera was able to use all its power on a downhill section and disappeared at warp speed but I bet the driver felt the same frustration I did in the C63.
On a nice warm summer's day with a dry road the C63 would be an altogether more enjoyable place to be but I don't see it as a car for winter unless the driver is prepared to accept that he will accelerate no faster than the average hot hatch for most of the time.
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DarthBalls
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Very good write up JohnC.
I don't think I'll be placing my order now I've read that
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franki68
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NIce write up,great car,but sound s like typical AMG..too much power and too much interference,I would find it infuriating to be unable to use that power for half the year.That is what made me sell the sl55...those damn blinking esp lights.
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ALF
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I have to say the winter just gone was a massive advert for 4WD in an everyday quick car. However much I love the AMG's, if I was doing a commute like my last one, I would go 4WD...
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the other ct
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Wonder if that’s the thinking behind those opportunistic but terribly patronising C5 ‘snow motion’ adverts.
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Jasper
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| the other ct wrote: | | Wonder if that’s the thinking behind those opportunistic but terribly patronising C5 ‘snow motion’ adverts. |
What do you mean? It made me want to buy one!
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