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JohnC

American elections

The more I hear from Donald Trump, the more I fear for the world if he were to win the election for President - he would inflame relations with potentially hostile countries and would do nothing to heal divisions within his own country.

Now that he has made these comments about the election being rigged, I think he has crossed a line from which it will be hard to return. Does he not believe that the American system is fair and democratic?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36950083
Twelfth Monkey

Well, Bush's election sort of proves that the US system isn't beyond a little 'tinkering.'

I was reading Trump's views on waterboarding, and whilst it's not a word I'd bandy around lightly I think he's a fascist at heart.  But with the democrats bickering, I fear that this dangerous buffoon with become POTUS.
gonnabuildabuggy

I too have big fears. The world is becoming very isolationist (including the UK post Brexit), but he cranks the gears up several notches.

From what I can see Trump is most likely to lose due to Trump. His ability to put his foot firmly in it, every time he opens his mouth is his biggest weakness.

Having used such tactics to go from 10th in the race to "winning" the Republican nomination he seems to have forgot that now is the time to become electable.

He actually has a lot in common with Corbyn who also managed to win party leadership of the back of a large majority of a minority voting for him despite the rest of the party not wanting him to win.

Clinton just has to keep her mouth shut and hopefully she will win be default.

I do think Trump's "rigged" comments are partially to help him if he loses, the error is going on about it so early, that kind of thing works best just before the election to mobilise voters.

Trump has already angered many veterans this week, we'll see what comes up next.

Even Warren Buffett is ganging up against him.

And.....I expect Trump has a lot of skeletons in his closet. I think the next 6 months might be his Andrea Leadom moment....

Let's hope.
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
He actually has a lot in common with Corbyn who also managed to win party leadership of the back of a large majority of a minority voting for him despite the rest of the party not wanting him to win.

Clinton just has to keep her mouth shut and hopefully she will win be default.


I disagree on both accounts.

He actually has a lot of similarities to 'leave' and the Democrats to 'remain' - he is creating a nationalist argument for suggesting everything that Americans have now isn't as good as it could be, where as the Democrats argument is 'let's build on this countries success'. Too many working class democrats who have seen the economy let them down are buying the Trump argument (and see Hilary as a seasoned politician with whom they have no identity) and not enough Republicans with intelligence and can't stand him seem to be willing to vote democrat as this is a bridge too far (and they dislike Hilary).

Like Farage, Johnson and Gove, it doesn't matter how ridiculous the claims sound to the man on the downtown metro, he will win the war of 'different is better'

His election to the President of the United States is, frankly, a foregone conclusion. As much as we would like to think sense and the bigger picture will win, it won't.
PhilD

Frank Bullitt wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
He actually has a lot in common with Corbyn who also managed to win party leadership of the back of a large majority of a minority voting for him despite the rest of the party not wanting him to win.

Clinton just has to keep her mouth shut and hopefully she will win be default.


I disagree on both accounts.

He actually has a lot of similarities to 'leave' and the Democrats to 'remain' - he is creating a nationalist argument for suggesting everything that Americans have now isn't as good as it could be



and as with 'remain' the problems in your life are all someone else's fault (foreigners, the politicians etc). The details of what he says doesn't actually matter, people will hear what they want to hear.

This is a good read (if a little long)

https://www.theguardian.com/books...trump-rally-presidential-campaign
gonnabuildabuggy

Frank Bullitt wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
He actually has a lot in common with Corbyn who also managed to win party leadership of the back of a large majority of a minority voting for him despite the rest of the party not wanting him to win.

Clinton just has to keep her mouth shut and hopefully she will win be default.


I disagree on both accounts.

He actually has a lot of similarities to 'leave' and the Democrats to 'remain' - he is creating a nationalist argument for suggesting everything that Americans have now isn't as good as it could be, where as the Democrats argument is 'let's build on this countries success'. Too many working class democrats who have seen the economy let them down are buying the Trump argument (and see Hilary as a seasoned politician with whom they have no identity) and not enough Republicans with intelligence and can't stand him seem to be willing to vote democrat as this is a bridge too far (and they dislike Hilary).

Like Farage, Johnson and Gove, it doesn't matter how ridiculous the claims sound to the man on the downtown metro, he will win the war of 'different is better'

His election to the President of the United States is, frankly, a foregone conclusion. As much as we would like to think sense and the bigger picture will win, it won't.


My comment was referring to the fact that he won the republican nomination off the back of the public vote despite not being popular amongst the rest of the political party, rather than anything to do with the election.

Will he win? I agree with your views on why he might win. However I think, unlike Brexit, many others beyond the democratic party are now swinging into action to work against him. He is anti corporate America and they have a lot of clout to hit him with.

Warren Buffet has openly come out and asked him to publish his tax returns which he is refusing to do.

I can still see him winning but I really hope he doesn't.
gonnabuildabuggy

PhilD wrote:


and as with 'remain' the problems in your life are all someone else's fault (foreigners, the politicians etc). The details of what he says doesn't actually matter, people will hear what they want to hear.


Nice video on FB earlier.

Gun deaths in America make any terrorist attacks seem miniscule.

Your more likely to be killed by a kid with a gun in America than a terrorist.
Stuntman

I agree with FB's analysis above and think there's a significant chance (risk) of Mr Trump winning.

Ladbrokes have him at 15/8 with Hillary at 2/5.  But a couple of weeks ago, Hillary was 3/10, so the likelihood of a Trump victory has improved a little, in their view.
Tim

I was irritated by the huge fuss about Ted Cruz not endorsing Trump.

If I'd been in Cruz' position I'd do exactly the same, why would you endorse a man who has attacked you and your family in a particularly personal way in order to trample his way to the top?
That would simply make you a hypocrite.
gonnabuildabuggy

What was I saying about Trump not being popular with the Republican party?

It all kicked off yesterday, including Republican senators saying they will vote Clinton.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-ne...linton-donald-trump-election-live
Bob Sacamano

Quite depressing watching, really. two equally bad candidates. If the Republicans had put anyone else up but Trump they'd be miles ahead by now.
BeN

This is how the world will end, isn't it?

Nice knowing you all. It's been swell.
JohnC

I think the "trump" card is that he is promising to look after the "American People" and put them first. For those on low earnings and under privileged areas or those who have never stepped outside America or are bigoted, these words will be enough to get their vote.

Dare I say it but the more intelligent outward looking Americans will have to go against their instincts and vote for Hillary if they want to stop Trump. Many will feel that is a step too far and as a consequence they and the rest of the World will have to get ready for the uncertainty that Trump will bring.

One of the strengths of a good Politician is that he/she knows when to bite their tongue, when to give praise when they don't really want to and when to be respectful when you just want to tell them to f*** off. I fear that Donald Trump has few, if any, of these skills.
Frank Bullitt

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
What was I saying about Trump not being popular with the Republican party?

It all kicked off yesterday, including Republican senators saying they will vote Clinton.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-ne...linton-donald-trump-election-live


For every Republican Senator voting for Clinton there will be over 10'000 blue-collar Union auto workers or Pittsburgh Steel Workers voting for Trump

National Socialism - it's a vote-winner
gonnabuildabuggy

JohnC wrote:
I think the "trump" card is that he is promising to look after the "American People" and put them first. For those on low earnings and under privileged areas or those who have never stepped outside America or are bigoted, these words will be enough to get their vote.


As long as they are not black, hispanic or Muslim.

The poor white, working class vote is in decline compared to others.

Don't get me wrong, he stands a real chance of winning but not if he keeps offending everyone that exists outside his core vote.
Twelfth Monkey

JohnC wrote:

One of the strengths of a good Politician is that he/she knows when to bite their tongue, when to give praise when they don't really want to and when to be respectful when you just want to tell them to f*** off. I fear that Donald Trump has few, if any, of these skills.


I think you're on pretty safe ground there!
PhilD

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
JohnC wrote:
I think the "trump" card is that he is promising to look after the "American People" and put them first. For those on low earnings and under privileged areas or those who have never stepped outside America or are bigoted, these words will be enough to get their vote.


As long as they are not black, hispanic or Muslim.



why not? it won't be them he is talking about, it will be the other blacks, hispanics and Muslims, you know, the problem ones!
Tim

JohnC wrote:
I think the "trump" card is that he is promising to look after the "American People" and put them first. For those on low earnings and under privileged areas or those who have never stepped outside America or are bigoted, these words will be enough to get their vote.


I agree and the irony is that if he gets to power those will be the last people he'll do anything for.

He criticises big business and the 'elites' by saying they'll back the rigged system but surely as a Billionaire businessman/property developer he's one of these big business/elite types himself?

I think he's just reading the lines put in front of him without taking the time to understand what they say and that somewhere in the background there must be a group of people - maybe even just the speechwriters - pissing themselves laughing and wondering how far they can take this.
gonnabuildabuggy

I do ponder what will happen if he wins.

I can see a "boris johnson" moment of "WTF do I do now?"

I'm sure the army of civil servants and US Senate (who is he pissing off rapidly) will not allow him to endulge some of his wilder promises.
Bob Sacamano

Trump thinks he's in a version of his TV show "The Apprentice" and the only goal is to win. It's down to the final two, him and Clinton, and all he wants is for the American people to fire her and declare him the winner. He has no plan beyond that, and certainly not the attention span for a 4 year term as POTUS.
Blarno

Different cheeks of the same arse.
PG

Out of 319 million, the US ends up with a choice between these two. Then the system does need to change. Ironic really as that is what Trump keeps going on about.......

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