| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Nice Guy Eddie |
Alfa Romeo Mito 1.4TB 155 VeloceWith the onslaught of problems with the MX-5 and the fact that during the last few weeks the Missus has had to use my car as she couldn't use her's in the snow and ice we have been thinking of changing for something more practical. The list was endless and had anything on it from a used 987 Boxster to an Fiat 500 but eventually have narrowed it down to either the MiTo or a Mini Cooper S.The Sales guy we have been dealing with has been, so far, very good and very well informed. An informed salesman may not be too much to ask for you would think but having been to various dealerships over the last few weeks the standards of service are certainly diverse. On first seeing the car last week, It took a little getting used to the front end which tends to give the car an upright stance rather then the sleek and low down look of the 8C Competizione of which it is loosely based. It also seemed slightly underwheeled. On going back to the dealership yesterday though the car just seemed to look so right which was a great surprise. Once behind the wheel there is a whole host of adjustments that give the car a perfect driving position. The rest of the Alfa range is not so well blessed. Having sat in both a 159 and a Brera in the showroom you tend to sit far too high. The car I drove had only the basic cloth interior which was actually very nice. I'd be interested in going for the Red leather which will push the car into a whole new dimension but at £880 its a little punchy for what is a supermini. I was ran through the DNA switch which gives you Dynamic, normal or All weather modes. With the car in normal the accelerator had a very spongy feel with nothing really happening until you had applied 50% of throttle, the steering was light with little feel but sure its something you could work around. I only lasted about a mile before the salesman advised that I put the car into 'dynamic' mode and the difference was quite remarkable. So remarkable in fact I'm surprised this isn't the normal setting. The steering gains quite a lot of weight and the throttle response becomes instant. The ride is supposed to be effected in 'dynamic' mode but I couldn't really tell the difference both as a passenger and from the captains chair between that and normal. The ride quality and steering have been criticised quite heavily within certain sections of the media. Cropley this week wrote that "its been a long time since I have been as disappointed in a car as I am with the Mito. The Mitos steering strikes me as so dreadful the ride so awful that the car doesn't feel finished." I am far from being a motoring journo and will admit that Cropley has probably had far more years in differnet cars to assess good from bad but in this case can almost certinly say he is talking out of his arse. I don't know what exactly Alfa Romeo has done to upset these guys at Autocar in the past but there is obviously something not quite right either with him or the car he sat in. The MiTo isn't as good to steer as a new Mini but the ride quality is no worse and could even be better. I have not driven the Fiesta so will happily admit that it may be leagues ahead of the Mito but compared to most cars on the market it has them beaten. The car we drove was the 155hp model. The power delivery was instant in Dynamic and the car swept round to it 7000rpm redline with ease. The engine note was plesent for a 4 cylinder unit but far away from the Twin Spark units I used to drive in the past. As its a Fiat unit I guess that Alfa have tried to breath some soul into it but have only got it just about right. maybe a more roarty exhuast could help. It certainly felt quick pulling onto the A3 I was upto illegal speeds in no time. I negotiated a roundabout at speed and the car held on exceptionaly well. There wasn't again a great amount of feel as the weighty steering was obviously added to give the impression of feel but it did raise a grin and thats all a small car needs to do. All boxes ticked then Not quite, with the 155bhp Veloce with leather and visibility pack you are talking 16k, if you go for the 120bhp you're talking 15k. I don't know what the like for like Punto goes for but I can bet its a fair a saving of 3 or 4k. The other problem was I was told in no uncertain terms that there was no discount availiable on the Mito as its a new model and there are no stock cars with factory orders taking 3 months. With us likely to only get around 4k for the MX-5 in this climate it leaves the cost to change as maybe a little high. One thing that is however going in the favour of the Mito was that the residual values after 3 years being as high as 48% if you are going for a basic model it can be on the drieway for on a PCP for less the £200 pm with minimal deposit. I am waiting till Tuesday to see what the dealers can do on the price of our MX-5. If we get a good price then a deal could be done, if not we might have to wait 6 months or go for a used Cooper S. 
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| Martin |
Very interesting, sounds better than the reports have suggested.
My dealer said they had plenty of cars available as long as you were happy with the STD spec. |
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| Nice Guy Eddie |
I went on the dealers vehicle locator system and although there were a few on their way over from Italy thy were all non leather or with the wrong kit. You could in theory get one in 2 weeks but I'm not wanting to pay extra for the wrong spec. |
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| Giant |
Does that come with free condoms and monthly visits to the local sexual health clinic?!... 
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| Martin |
I no idea what you're talking about, something you want to tell us about?! |
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| Martin |
Yes, he was talking about non leather equipped cars Have you driven the Cooper S then? I know which one I would have 
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| Giant |
For whatever reason, to me the acronym STD just stands for Sexually Transmitted Diseases! It's not something I have any experience about though!... 
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| "him" |
Re: Alfa Romeo Mito 1.4TB 155 Veloce
Nice write up 'NGE', it is interesting you make the comment above about the throttle, when you say "nothing really happens", do you mean there is no response from the engine, or just that the car doesn't really "get into its stride" until your foot is half way down? |
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| Nice Guy Eddie |
A bit of both really. Its a long pedal anyway but there is so little reponse it makes easy getaways difficult. Maybe as its Italian only full acceleration matters. | ||||||
| TimR |
If you set the DNA to Dynamic does it remember that when you next go to the car or do you have to set it every time?
I really must go and see one of these soon. |
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| Matt |
DNA is on a rocker switch, so it's possible it could click into one of the three modes and remain there for as long as you want it to.
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| TimR |
Righto. That makes sense.
Might go along with a mate to have a look. He seems interested in chopping in his 06 reg 147TI for something from the Alfa stable. Might help us get a test drive |
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| Martin |
I bought the latest evo yesterday, I'm a bit behind as my subscription has run out. They agree with you about the DNA system and how poor it is in normal, but don't heavily criticise the way it drives as Autocar / Cropley have done. It sounds like it is just not very exciting from both an engine and driving point of view, it's OK, but should be better.
It gets 3 stars. Out of interest ( ), the Clubman Cooper S got 4.5 stars on the first drive (best New MINI yer was the summary), although the cheeky monkeys have dropped hat to 4 stars in the back of the mag 
Go for a lightly used Cooper S Hatch! |
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| PG |
Do they use the same graduate trainees as Renault to spec the cars then? An Alfa without red or tan leather is just not really an Alfa is it? |
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| Martin |
The MiTo looks a lot better in black than red. I don't think you can get tan leather either....! | ||||||
| Nice Guy Eddie |
Fear not tan is an option for the MiTo | ||||||
| Frank Bullitt |
It is, and in Etna black will look pant-wettingly tasty! Personally, I'd wait 6 months until Alfa dealers soften their approach; the 147 was a discount-free zone for a short while too. |
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| ALF |
Interesting to have the perspective of a non-Autocar employee. You seem to agree pretty much with Evo and the AROC mag, which is that it's a decent but not stellar steer, but is very strong on quality/appeal, which is a big factor in ownership (which, sadly, is not all spanking the oversteer bitch with a dab of oppo on a deserted road, alone in the car).
I suprise myself that I prefer the idea of the 500 Abarth, despite not liking the basic car much, I'm a tart for top of the range models so only the GTA Mito would do. In either, I'd have the leather for sure, in both it is a high-quality item that significantly lifts the whole car. |
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| "him" |
I am the same...
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| Martin |
When I looked at one, my biggest concern is that it would be the opposite of a 'grower' (whatever the right word is!), that and the slightly dull looking interior (well it is compared to the MINI, although I know that isn't to everyone's taste). The leather would probably make a fairly big difference, but then it's getting too expensive for what it is. | ||||||
| Chris M Wants a V-10 |
Am I the only one who pronounces the "MiTo" as "me too" ? | ||||||
| ALF |
So you like interiors that look like the result of a hand-grenade being thrown into a child's toy-car parts shop ?
Getting interiors right is something small cars routinely fail to do, in my book. It's OK for a little cheap shitbox to have a matching interior, but when they try to make one "quality" (i.e. justify a "real car" price tag) it often falls apart. The Fiat 500 Abarth with leather looks OK in some pics, but I've not seen it in the flesh. French ones are routinely minging (matching the Mini for trying too hard and randomness of dial position, but with none of the quality and style) and this puts me off the otherwise tasty Twingo Cup. The mini has the quality but that speedo alone puts me off. I like small cars to drive, but I also like decent interiors thay make me feel snug and surrounded by quality bits of car, not glass and plastic, these likes are often at odds... I must get a go in a Mito to see what they are like... Edited to add - bizarrely the 1 series interior works well for me, it is just when the same design is used in the 3 and above it looks too sparse and not sufficiently driver-focused for me... |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I liked it in the pictures but was underwhelmed when I poked around a real one the other week. A bit too toy-like for me. |
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| Martin |
Yep
I'm saying nothing about Alfa interiors
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| Gurney |
Well the MiTo TB 155 just got a massive 2.5 stars in today's Autocar.
Cue wailing & gnashing on Alfaowner I guess. Totally damned by the steering and harsh suspension it seems. Got to get a go in one. |
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| Nice Guy Eddie |
FFS, the steering isn't great but then that applies to 90% of cars on sale today. The ride is a little harsh but again this can be said for most 'sportily' set ups today. It was far better then a mini on 17"s and better then all the BMW's on run flats I've ever driven or passengered in (admittedly all M sports).
I would never have expected the car to get 4 or 5 stars as it's not as good to drive as the Mini but its a solid 3.5 stars on the drive alone and more if you account for the build quality and general feel good factor the car gives. I have to get a drive in a new Fiesta because it must be something else by what Autocar keeps saying. |
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| Martin |
As always it's just an opinion based on personal taste, so should be taken as such.
We have plenty of different opinions, tastes, priorities and prejudices on this forum; it doesn't make any one of them right or wrong. The mags do get to drive a lot more cars than we do and at least base their opinion of time spent in the car, but that still doesn't make them right. If your preferred type, make or model of car is criticised it's natural to get a little upset when someone else hates it, but that's what moonboots were invented for!! I don't care whether the MiTo is a 5 star or 2 star car. If I was interested in one then I would go and look at it for myself (as I did) and then decide whether I was still interested enough to drive one (which I wasn't) and then based on that test drive and all the other normal considerations, whether I wanted to buy one (which I don’t). Nothing to get too upset about. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
That's certainly true, but I think Autocar have been far harsher on this car than they would be on cars from other makes with the same good and bad points. | ||||||
| Nice Guy Eddie |
Its not the fact that it puts me off Martin, its the fact that it may put other people off the car when Alfa deserves to be getting people back into the showrooms. People who haven't driven one end up taking Autocars word as gospel and remove the car from their list as its been given a poor report.
As the good Doctor says, it appears to be an overly harsh report if you compare the car to the equivilent Polo, Mini etc. Even the guys at Drivers Republic gave it 8 out of 10 and they don't usually rate anything unless it can hit 60 in 5 seconds. |
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| TimR |
It sounds like Autocar's inconsistency is getting worse.
I fail to understand why cars such as the Alfa get slagged for a harsh ride yet most run flat equipped BMWs or Audi Sportlines are apparently worse yet the ride is barely mentioned. You can't even use the sporty excuse as IMO a Mito 155TB is sportier in concept than, say, a 320D. As Martin says if you want a particular car then you'll find out more for yourself but there must be some people who get convinced by the shite that Autocar come out with. Perhaps the first line of every test should be an admission by the writer of where their prejudice lies. e.g. "My name is Andrew Frankel and I have never liked Alfas." |
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| Eff One |
For a graphic demonstration of this, read their road test: http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarRevie...Mito-1.4-155-T-Jet-Veloce/238483/ Then read their first drive: http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarRevie...-Mito-1.4-155-T-Jet-Lusso/233568/ |
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| TimR |
What a bunch of arseholes. How can they describe the gearchange as 'soulless'? They might've just as well have not tested the car and had the verdict as "we don't like Alfas". |
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| "him" |
I agree completely, and though I am not a huge fan of the looks of the "AlFiat Corsa" and have never driven one, to criticise it for a poor ride does seem a little churlish. 2.5 stars seems intended just to "stand out" in the press perhaps? Like others have said, you either like it or you don't, and I sure many will be sold on it before the car has even turned a wheel. 
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| PR |
I doubt Autocar's verdict will make any meaningful difference. How many MINI owners are regular Autocar readers? I bet it's a proportion too small to register - I seem to remember reading that the vast majority of MINIs are sold to people who haven't even bothered to drive one first. These cars live or die on 'want one' factor, not what a specialist magazine says. |
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| DaveGibson |
Autocar's audited circulation for the six months to Dec 2008 fell to 52,366 copies so it can't exactly reach that many people now. | ||||||
| Gurney |
Our office is a microcosm of this. At least half a dozen Mini owners and not a single one could be termed as an 'enthusiast'. Almost without exception they have bought one because of it's 'cuteness' or what they imagine it says about them. Same could be said for the Alfas. In fact one of the Mini owners also has a 147, a his and her arrangement - no prizes for who has which. Happily for Alfa and increasing unhappily for Autocar their opinions are carrying less and less weight. |
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| ALF |
I hadn't seen that test until now (no longer being a subscriber to anything but the excellently-written Evo). How the frig can they give it only 2.5 stars after that write up? 2.5??????????? That's a Ssangyong score. As always with Alfas, the "score" and overall standing vs competitors simply doesn't match the text, and even the words are harsh compared to many other mags and people that I know who have driven the thing. The score seems to come just from the harsh ride, poor steering, and gearchange. All S-Line Audis can boast the first two (in spades and to a worse extent in my experience) plus usually worse engines than Alfa. I don't recall many of them getting 2.5 stars...
Their scores for alfas seem to just be getting lower and lower, as if the sniping about favouritism makes them do it even more
All I can say is - what a bunch of fuckwits. |
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| Gurney |
It could just be me but I seem to sense some evangelical crusade by Autocar to force Alfa to produce a car which satisfies their ideals.
The gearchange lacking character had me howling with laughter, this from a mag which once accused Alfa of relying solely on 'character' to sell it's cars. |
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| TimR |
I think it's more like a crusade to put Alfa out of business before they finally sort their shit out and make a car that's better than Autocar's beloved Deutsch Marques. I had a twiddle of the gearchange on the Mito in the showroom and it didn't seem too bad to me. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Especially as Top Gear will probably love it, and they reach a *slightly* larger audience ... |
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| TimR |
Thought I'd dig this up as I test drove a MiTo 155TB Veloce on Sunday.
I've got to say I was mildly disappointed. I didn't expect fantastic performance from a 1.4 turbo but it was actually pretty quick apart from the lack of a decent top-end pull. This seems to be a modern petrol turbo characteristic - the elimination of lag for a good solid instant pull from low revs but no second wind at higher revs. Really there was no performance gain from venturing beyond 5k revs. I was surprised at how firm the ride was. Not unacceptable but I wouldn't want it to be any harder. That doesn't bode well for any future sporties editions. All the controls were pretty light although driving there in the M5 may have added to that feeling. The gearchange was startlingly light - is the lever actually connected to anything - and even with the DNA set to Dynamic steering was probably a little light for my taste. Nice and sharp though. Sadly I didn't get a chance to kick it down a decent bit of twisty road so I can't say a lot about handling but I suspect that on a smooth road high grip would be a limiting factor to trying to get the car moving about. Otherwise the car had an oddly 'weightless' feel to it, as if a strong gust of wind might blow you into the sky. Obviously the looks are subjective but I'm generally ok with them and having now seen a couple of cars with body coloured light and mirror surrounds I'd say that choice makes a big improvement. At the moment it is clear there are absolutely no deals to be had on the MiTo as they're really not having any trouble selling all the cars they can get. So, I wouldn't buy one then, even with a discount but I might go back to try one if they come out with a bigger engine and more performance. |