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franki68

991 gt3

I am dithering over the seat selection on the gt4 so asked the dealer if he had a car with folding buckets I could try.
He told me to pop round as they had a gt3 just come in.

it's crap.









as if,everything you read is true.There is one major issue though,9000rpm is wonderful ,but I got nowhere near it,not sure how often you could on the road.It struck me as a car to use for mostly track work ,or if you live in a country with more liberal driving rules and better road conditions.

As a side issue,this car was £128k new ,the dealer was selling it at £160k.The car was a 14 plate with 500 miles and had had 4 owners.The current owner bought it at £165k expecting it to sell for 180K .
JohnC

Re: 991 gt3

franki68 wrote:

it's crap.



The seats or the GT3?

I agree about being too fast for the road though - you would almost never get an opportunity to extend it.
franki68

Re: 991 gt3

JohnC wrote:
franki68 wrote:

it's crap.



The seats or the GT3?

I agree about being too fast for the road though - you would almost never get an opportunity to extend it.


neither,I wasn't being serious hence the 'as if'.
JohnC

Do you expect a GT4 has such a stellar command of used prices?
gooner

Re: 991 gt3

JohnC wrote:
franki68 wrote:

it's crap.



The seats or the GT3?

I agree about being too fast for the road though - you would almost never get an opportunity to extend it.


Given how easy it is to go well above the speed limit with quarter of the power and big heavy diesel lump out front I think you're right. For me the sweet spot of the current 911 range is the Targa S. I don't see that I could safely handle much more, which makes a turbo and GT3 a bit pointless. Fantasy car it may be but not all of us are Walter Rohrl.
Stuntman

What's the verdict on the seats then franki?  Did you get on with the folding buckets, and would you choose those over the 918 style Lightweight buckets?
(I have the same decision to make soon and I haven't had the opportunity to sit in the 918 style seats yet.  I like the folding buckets.)
Stuntman

JohnC - current view on the GT4 suggests about a £15k-£20k premium over list
Roadrunner

This thread goes to show why there is so much fun to be had in a 110 bhp 1.6 Morgan 4/4 Sport or Caterham. All the way to the red line in every gear.
simonp

4 owners and 500 miles in a year?! Goes to show that the only people buying these cars are prospectors hoping to make a fast buck. Buy it, try it and then flog it on to the next "enthusiast". What a waste.
JohnC

Roadrunner wrote:
This thread goes to show why there is so much fun to be had in a 110 bhp 1.6 Morgan 4/4 Sport or Caterham. All the way to the red line in every gear.


And the announcement this morning of the rolling out of more average speed cameras all over Scotland makes me think this type of car will be the only way to get a bit of fun in a few years time.

3000 deaths a year on the road in the UK gets a big budget and lots of publicity. However 12,000 deaths in the NHS because senior staff don't work weekends gets a brief mention in the news. It's not about lives it's about money!
franki68

Stuntman wrote:
What's the verdict on the seats then franki? †Did you get on with the folding buckets, and would you choose those over the 918 style Lightweight buckets?
(I have the same decision to make soon and I haven't had the opportunity to sit in the 918 style seats yet. †I like the folding buckets.)



The 918 seats look brilliant but they are the least comfortable of the 3 .Nightmare to get in and out of as well.(they had a 918 there)

The folding buckets were very comfortable ,but again awkward to get †in and out of.

The adaptive seats are comfortable ,supportive and easy to get in and out of.

Brain says adaptive,heart says folding ,the 918 buckets also still add 10 week delay to build slot ,so overall they are a no go for me.

But I do feel gt car should have buckets ,so I am veering towards the folding buckets.


In short ,I still haven't made my mind up.
gooner

JohnC wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
This thread goes to show why there is so much fun to be had in a 110 bhp 1.6 Morgan 4/4 Sport or Caterham. All the way to the red line in every gear.


And the announcement this morning of the rolling out of more average speed cameras all over Scotland makes me think this type of car will be the only way to get a bit of fun in a few years time.

3000 deaths a year on the road in the UK gets a big budget and lots of publicity. However 12,000 deaths in the NHS because senior staff don't work weekends gets a brief mention in the news. It's not about lives it's about money!


What about the 4000+ deaths a year (and still rising) from asbestos? Doesn't get as much publicity in the mainstream media as it rightfully should do. (Not that that's a biased opinion of an asbestos surveyor)
PhilD

Roadrunner wrote:
This thread goes to show why there is so much fun to be had in a 110 bhp 1.6 Morgan 4/4 Sport or Caterham. All the way to the red line in every gear.


I can do that quite easily...

franki68

I think everyone knows about the engine issue with the 991 gt3s and their subsequent delivery problems.
Just been reading,apparently several owners have had to have the engines replaced again,and one guy 45k Kms in 1 year ,mostly track...on his eighth engine apparently .
Hence why the gt3 rs has the re limit lowered.
JohnC

franki68 wrote:
one guy 45k Kms in 1 year ,mostly track


Now that is seriously good use of a year especially given the time he must have lost going back to get the engine changed 8 times.
franki68

JohnC wrote:
franki68 wrote:
one guy 45k Kms in 1 year ,mostly track


Now that is seriously good use of a year especially given the time he must have lost going back to get the engine changed 8 times.


Imagine the tyre and fuel bills,but what a great way to blow money
Alf McQueef

gooner wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Roadrunner wrote:
This thread goes to show why there is so much fun to be had in a 110 bhp 1.6 Morgan 4/4 Sport or Caterham. All the way to the red line in every gear.


And the announcement this morning of the rolling out of more average speed cameras all over Scotland makes me think this type of car will be the only way to get a bit of fun in a few years time.

3000 deaths a year on the road in the UK gets a big budget and lots of publicity. However 12,000 deaths in the NHS because senior staff don't work weekends gets a brief mention in the news. It's not about lives it's about money!


What about the 4000+ deaths a year (and still rising) from asbestos? Doesn't get as much publicity in the mainstream media as it rightfully should do. (Not that that's a biased opinion of an asbestos surveyor)


A thing I saw recently about cycling deaths balanced the small number killed each year in London with the stat of around 3500 deaths directly attributable to not taking any exercise. And that was just London.

As a cyclist and a driver, I think road deaths have a strangely excessive level of focus, comparatively, and budget, compared to many other areas where less money could be spent for better results. There is also no consideration given to "big brother" factors - endless ANPR cameras on the roads, and speed cameras, and more and more rules and reductions in speed limits with a general attitude of "how dare you enjoy driving" compares very strangely to the refusal to limit healthcare for those blatantly abusing their bodies, and all the PC nonsense on calling people fat. It makes no objective sense.
Nice Guy Eddie

franki68 wrote:
Stuntman wrote:
What's the verdict on the seats then franki? †Did you get on with the folding buckets, and would you choose those over the 918 style Lightweight buckets?
(I have the same decision to make soon and I haven't had the opportunity to sit in the 918 style seats yet. †I like the folding buckets.)



The 918 seats look brilliant but they are the least comfortable of the 3 .Nightmare to get in and out of as well.(they had a 918 there)

The folding buckets were very comfortable ,but again awkward to get †in and out of.

The adaptive seats are comfortable ,supportive and easy to get in and out of.

Brain says adaptive,heart says folding ,the 918 buckets also still add 10 week delay to build slot ,so overall they are a no go for me.

But I do feel gt car should have buckets ,so I am veering towards the folding buckets.


In short ,I still haven't made my mind up.


I found the 918 seats the most comfortable of all the options I've tried. The old buckets used to pinch my shoulders a little too much. If memory serves correctly I do think we sit at the opposite ends of the weight spectrum however.

Having said all that , the 918 buckets are so lovely I'd probably spec them even if it felt like sitting on razor blades.
Stuntman

My spec currently includes the 918 style buckets but I really need to sit in all 3 seats before finalising.  Hopefully either Silverstone or Reading might have examples of all 3 seats and I can make a trip.
franki68

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
franki68 wrote:
Stuntman wrote:
What's the verdict on the seats then franki? †Did you get on with the folding buckets, and would you choose those over the 918 style Lightweight buckets?
(I have the same decision to make soon and I haven't had the opportunity to sit in the 918 style seats yet. †I like the folding buckets.)



The 918 seats look brilliant but they are the least comfortable of the 3 .Nightmare to get in and out of as well.(they had a 918 there)

The folding buckets were very comfortable ,but again awkward to get †in and out of.

The adaptive seats are comfortable ,supportive and easy to get in and out of.

Brain says adaptive,heart says folding ,the 918 buckets also still add 10 week delay to build slot ,so overall they are a no go for me.

But I do feel gt car should have buckets ,so I am veering towards the folding buckets.


In short ,I still haven't made my mind up.


I found the 918 seats the most comfortable of all the options I've tried. The old buckets used to pinch my shoulders a little too much. If memory serves correctly I do think we sit at the opposite ends of the weight spectrum however.

Having said all that , the 918 buckets are so lovely I'd probably spec them even if it felt like sitting on razor blades.


I agree the folding buckets do squeeze your shoulders ,but I know everyone who has taken delivery with 918 seats has complained that there is no lumbar support,they all drive now with small cushion on the seat,and it is the worst by a margin to get in and out of,I imagine that leather trim on the side will be worn very quickly .
I sat int he adaptive seats in a turbo and they are easily the best,most comfortable and easiest in terms of access,but the buckets do look better no doubt.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

franki68 wrote:

I sat int he adaptive seats in a turbo and they are easily the best,most comfortable and easiest in terms of access,but the buckets do look better no doubt.

So are you buying the car to enjoy, or for future resale value ???
PhilD

franki68 wrote:

but I know everyone who has taken delivery with 918 seats has complained that there is no lumbar support,they all drive now with small cushion on the seat


a snip at only £399...



Also available in carbon fibre if you want the weight saving
franki68

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
franki68 wrote:

I sat int he adaptive seats in a turbo and they are easily the best,most comfortable and easiest in terms of access,but the buckets do look better no doubt.

So are you buying the car to enjoy, or for future resale value ???



To enjoy,but if I do not like it then it will be sold .

This is always the case with a 'blind purchase' for me.
Roadsterstu

How do potential owners view a car with only 500 miles and 4 previous owners?  Has it been bought purely by speculators?  Has it been owned by complete numpties?  Or is that just how it is with this kind of car?
franki68

Roadsterstu wrote:
How do potential owners view a car with only 500 miles and 4 previous owners? †Has it been bought purely by speculators? †Has it been owned by complete numpties? †Or is that just how it is with this kind of car?


This particular car is like that due to speculators.
But it's common for Ferrari and lambos to have very low miles/high number of owners.
People buy them ,don't drive them as they are very impractical ,then realize they are wasting their money not driving them so then sell them.
Pretty much guarantee if you look at classifieds there will be numerous ferraris and lambos say 5 years old with less than 12k on clock  and 3 or 4 owners.
JohnC

I would be a lot cheaper to get a non running lookalike and stick it in the driveway. Some people must lose a fortune on cars just for the pleasure of owning but not using them. Others, I suppose might actually have made wise investment choices.

However I do have a client who keeps his Gallardo in a garage at his Portugese holiday villa and it is probably lucky if it does any more than 3,000 to 4,000 in a year.
TreVoR

It's not just high end stuff.  Lindsey's '07 MX-5 has had three or four (can't remember) different owners until we bought it in 2010.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

simonp wrote:
4 owners and 500 miles in a year?! Goes to show that the only people buying these cars are prospectors hoping to make a fast buck. Buy it, try it and then flog it on to the next "enthusiast". What a waste.

This is what makes me so angry about Porsche's policy with the GT models: it's got to the stage where by the time the car is official, it's already too late. Why not just make as many as customers want?
PhilD

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
simonp wrote:
4 owners and 500 miles in a year?! Goes to show that the only people buying these cars are prospectors hoping to make a fast buck. Buy it, try it and then flog it on to the next "enthusiast". What a waste.

This is what makes me so angry about Porsche's policy with the GT models: it's got to the stage where by the time the car is official, it's already too late. Why not just make as many as customers want?


sounds like they do, just that the customers need to wait until the 4 speculators and time wasters are done with them!
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

PhilD wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
simonp wrote:
4 owners and 500 miles in a year?! Goes to show that the only people buying these cars are prospectors hoping to make a fast buck. Buy it, try it and then flog it on to the next "enthusiast". What a waste.

This is what makes me so angry about Porsche's policy with the GT models: it's got to the stage where by the time the car is official, it's already too late. Why not just make as many as customers want?


sounds like they do, just that the customers need to wait until the 4 speculators and time wasters are done with them and pay double the original price!

FYP
PhilD

haha, yeah and that!
franki68

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
simonp wrote:
4 owners and 500 miles in a year?! Goes to show that the only people buying these cars are prospectors hoping to make a fast buck. Buy it, try it and then flog it on to the next "enthusiast". What a waste.

This is what makes me so angry about Porsche's policy with the GT models: it's got to the stage where by the time the car is official, it's already too late. Why not just make as many as customers want?


I am very ignorant about this,but aren't the gt models made by the motorsport division and so are subject to overall production limitations?
e.g at the moment they are only making gt4's and gt3 rs ,when those runs are finished they move onto the next gt model..

?
franki68

Back to the original post,having reflected on the drive I do have to say I was disappointed .Genuinely this was my most desired car on the planet since its introduction ,but I would not be bothered if I did not drive one again.
The colour (yellow) was a bit off putting to say the least ,but sat in it ,I felt no difference to sitting in the wifes boxster ,a car selling at £160k should make you feel great in every situation.
Maybe if I was tracking a car constantly then it would appeal,but for road use at that price it has way too much competition.Ok you cant use the performance of say a 458  on the road,but the car will give you goosebumps just mooching around in traffic ,likewise an aston  or lambo ,the gt3 does not have that . I suppose at the original price its a different kettle of fish,but since you can't get them at that ..
Stuntman

So considering your reflections on the GT3, are you still looking forward to getting the GT4?
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Is the Cayman a 991 ???
franki68

Stuntman wrote:
So considering your reflections on the GT3, are you still looking forward to getting the GT4?


Totally,I ithink it will be more like a 997gt3 but better balanced.its not too fast either ,and if I don't like it ,I will sell it and possibly make a few quid (for a change).
I think it will be enjoyable at road speeds ,and not something that really can only be enjoyed on track ....I hope.
franki68

Had a good sit in a 918 at my opc,no drive just to spend a bit longer with the buckets ( sounds weird that) ,but anyway more awkward to get in and out of ,but they look brilliant ,and are comfortable ,so I've gone back to them on my spec.

Btw the 918 was a customers car the dealer is looking after for a few weeks,the owner is 72.
I hope I can get in and out of one of those cars at that age.
Stuntman

I think our two GT4s will be completely or virtually identical!
franki68

Stuntman wrote:
I think our two GT4s will be completely or virtually identical!


just let me know what your number plate is ,might save me a few points.
franki68

fogot to add..no delays now on any options ..apart from pts.
Stuntman

Good news on the lack of further delays (I'm still following all those threads on PH).  I think yours will arrive before mine, but I'm doing the PEC before you are.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

franki68 wrote:
Stuntman wrote:
I think our two GT4s will be completely or virtually identical!


just let me know what your number plate is ,might save me a few points.

Will it get treated to
CA65 MAN ?
Giant

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
franki68 wrote:
Stuntman wrote:
I think our two GT4s will be completely or virtually identical!


just let me know what your number plate is ,might save me a few points.

Will it get treated to
CA65 MAN ?


I'm always bad with translating git plates, but what does that say?

I imagine it will be F6 DAN iirc?
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Giant wrote:

CA65 MAN ?
I'm always bad with translating git plates, but what does that say?


It doesn't say anything in particular, just the closest I could get to Cayman with the expected correct year identifier.
CA 11 MAN may be better/worse ??? but would falsely date the car to the casual observer.
A non-dating plate would be better, maybe
MY 4
or
GT 4
him

^^^ Or he could simply use the one he currently uses on his current Flat 6 powered Porsche?  
Chris M Wanted a V-10

Indeed
Roadsterstu

I thought he planned on keeping the current Cayman?
franki68

Stuntman wrote:
Good news on the lack of further delays (I'm still following all those threads on PH). †I think yours will arrive before mine, but I'm doing the PEC before you are.



car is being built on oct 8th ,not sure of delivery to me ,is it 2-3 weeks from then ?

PEC day is oct 28th ,probably after I get the car,when is yours due and when's your pec day?

Having spent far too long at my opc recently ,sapphire and carmine are the 2 best colours imo in the porsche range ,bar some of the pts colours (voodoo blue is amazing)
PG

I'm very late to this, but Porsche's supply strategy of these limited run models just seems to be purposefully designed to generate speculator interest, which gets them more publicity, that gets them more speculator interest. And repeat until the next financial crash.

And the excuse that they are built by a specialist division seems a bit thin. If they wanted to build more they could.

I admire both of you for intending to buy it to drive. That seems somewhat of a novel approach.  
PhilD

Are these the three sears you are choosing between?

http://www.porsche.com/uk/models/cayman/cayman-gt4/comfort/seats/

They all look good to me!
Martin

No, the folding buckets (Sports Buckets) aren't in that picture. †The Sports Seat plus are what we have in the Boxster, the adaptive seats are the ones I'd love to have
PhilD

Martin

Full buckets on the left, Sports buckets next one across.
PG

I realise that I'm an old man who drives a Jag, but those buckets and sports buckets look like exercises in masochism to me. Great to look at and will give the speculator a big stiffy. But to use?
franki68

PG wrote:
I realise that I'm an old man who drives a Jag, but those buckets and sports buckets look like exercises in masochism to me. Great to look at and will give the speculator a big stiffy. But to use?


The buckets are comfortable ....once you are in them.getting in and out is awkward and inelegant .


I have changed my spec 5 times now ,each time as A result of Porsche amending availability of certain options ,and now after 5 times ...ended up with the spec I first did .
Pathetic by Porsche.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

PG wrote:
I realise that I'm an old man who drives a Jag, but those buckets and sports buckets look like exercises in masochism to me. Great to look at and will give the speculator a big stiffy. But to use?

Surprisingly comfortable. I had the non-folding carbon buckets on the GT3 and they were excellent even over long distances. Never found myself wishing I'd specced the standard ones.
PhilD

excuse my ignorance....but why would you need folding seats on a Cayman?
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Small storage space behind?
PhilD

behind seats or the "parcel shelf"? if latter then can't you just open the rear screen?
PhilD

Answer!

Stuntman

Roadsterstu wrote:
I thought he planned on keeping the current Cayman?


Planning on keeping it, at least for a few months.  The GT4 will initially be the recipient of my third git plate (which was on the VX220 Turbo for those of you with long memories and has been on retention since November 2005).  

Ideally I would keep all 3 cars but I have neither the space nor the funds for this to remain the case for too long, especially as I will be rejoining the ranks of the unemployed next month.

Mine is currently scheduled for a November build so I suspect it will be a December delivery.  PEC is on Monday October 5th.

My spec hasn't changed since the second week of February!

It's about time we saw some UK road tests I reckon...
Roadsterstu

Stuntman wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
I thought he planned on keeping the current Cayman?


Planning on keeping it, at least for a few months. †The GT4 will initially be the recipient of my third git plate (which was on the VX220 Turbo for those of you with long memories and has been on retention since November 2005). †

Ideally I would keep all 3 cars but I have neither the space nor the funds for this to remain the case for too long, especially as I will be rejoining the ranks of the unemployed next month.

Mine is currently scheduled for a November build so I suspect it will be a December delivery. †PEC is on Monday October 5th.

My spec hasn't changed since the second week of February!

It's about time we saw some UK road tests I reckon...


I have spare garage space and I could "look after" one of the fleet for you...  
franki68

Stuntman wrote:
Roadsterstu wrote:
I thought he planned on keeping the current Cayman?


Planning on keeping it, at least for a few months. †The GT4 will initially be the recipient of my third git plate (which was on the VX220 Turbo for those of you with long memories and has been on retention since November 2005). †

Ideally I would keep all 3 cars but I have neither the space nor the funds for this to remain the case for too long, especially as I will be rejoining the ranks of the unemployed next month.

Mine is currently scheduled for a November build so I suspect it will be a December delivery. †PEC is on Monday October 5th.

My spec hasn't changed since the second week of February!

It's about time we saw some UK road tests I reckon...


There may not be any road tests unless someone is willing to lend theirs to a magazine.
There's been a couple of German  ones .

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