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Racing Teatray

440i Gran Coupe

Managed to test-drive a 16-plate 440i Gran Coupe yesterday. Which quite predictably drove very much like the 435i convertible I tried last year with the exception that it didn't have the adaptive suspension, which was useful as it helped me to ascertain that even on west London's scarred tarmac, it may not be the "must have" that the journos would have you believe. Undecided as to whether it is a key option.



Drive-wise, the engine is indeed lovely. It made a very classical and noticeable BMW straight six noise when fired up by the salesman to get it out of the slot for me – the sort of noise that would make a petrol head turn around just to see what had started up. Rather nicer than my car. On the go, it's more muted inside, but cracks a fantastic snarl pretty smartly if you put your foot down. It also certainly shifts. Performance feels on par with the M135i, which is borne out by the stats that BMW claims for it (0-60 in 4.9), but it's more easily accessed via the 8-speed automatic gearbox. In Sport mode, it does the stabbed rat thing with the best of them, accompanied by an instant yowl which is decidedly more stabbed puma than stabbed rat.

If I had a criticism, it is that the initial throttle response doesn't feel quite as keen as on my car, either in Comfort or Sport, which I also noted on the 435i. In fact it was instructive to drive the 440i and M135i back-to-back. Getting back into mine and returning along the same roads, the M135i feels definitely sportier – of course stirring your own gears helps in that respect – but it has a rawer feel, perhaps unsurprisingly. The GC is definitely (and one suspects deliberately) more of a laid-back personality. That said, on 19" alloys with RFTs (this particular car had the MSport Plus pack which I would choose) and as noted without adaptive suspension, it was a stiffer ride than my car. Not bad though, just less compliant than my car on 18" non-RFTs, which is as you would probably expect. It wasn't the sort of test-drive on which you get to indulge your inner Queef and really test the handling, but it felt like it would not disappoint in that respect and I've never read a bad review of the 4-series' handling.



Coming from the 1-series, I confess that a big part of the appeal of the 4GC is the styling. It's not perfect – the 6GC does the led-sled thing rather better – but it's still a slinky appealing design, looking long and low with bags of presence. The one I drove was, as you can see, a touch conventional in Sapphire Black with an imagination-free German black leather interior with lashings of silvered trim, but it still looked good and the bicolour alloys looked heaps better in real life than on the configurator. The interior is lifted hugely by going for any of the contrasting leather colours and any of the non-silver trim options.

As previously noted, the cabin architecture is almost too familiar coming from another BMW – it would be nice if it were more different just for the sake of it, but then again that does mean it is all logical and easy to use, and the latest M-Sport steering wheel is a great improvement on the overly fat-bossed version in my early M135i – I can actually see the entire instrument display which is a novelty. Plus it doesn't mean having to forgo BMW's iDrive system which is still better than anything else in a mainstream car that I have tried so far. The cabin is also definitely more spacious, however, and therefore more comfortable, particularly upfront. The frameless doors are a surprisingly appealing touch, adding that unexpected little touch of exotic to remind you it isn’t just a 3-series saloon.



A key feature of the interior of the 4GC for us is the boot space, the idea being that this represents a slinkier yet still practical alternative to a 3er Touring given that my wife has an aversion to estate cars. And it is pretty spacious. Not by Mondeo estate standards, but usefully more than the M135i, despite the compromises imposed by the sloping rear window. I think it would be easily big enough for a family with a single child. And, hallelujah, you get proper carpeting rather than the nasty felted nonsense inflicted by BMW on my current car… The standard fob-operated electric open/shut feature for the tailgate is also a nice feature.



And in fact the standard spec compared to a 3-series is pretty comprehensive. As well as the powered tailgate, you get all sorts of goodies such as Pro Nav, Xenons, Heated electric front seats etc as standard and in fact my list of chosen options is pretty short (not just to keep the monthlies low but also because not much was needed) – I'd go for the MSport Plus pack (brings HK audio, uprated brakes, 19" alloys and gangsta glass for £1900), Walnut trim, sunroof, folding mirrors and a reversing camera (not for me, but the wife will love it). Plus possibly adaptive suspension. And that's it.

So, I think I'm pretty much sold on the idea, subject to getting the wife on board (the tricky bit) and getting a worthwhile deal (which is looking possible – around 20% discount and 2.9% APR). It's not a must-do; I (she) could still decide we are not going for it. But we were pretty much agreed that a new more spacious car was needed next year, and given the good deal, the impending price rises due to the collapse of the pound, and the tax changes due next April on cars with RRP over £40k, it seems logical to at least consider it now.
simonp

I'm not much of a BMW fan, but that model is the one I'd have. Still not sure why they make the 3GT alongside it, though...
Racing Teatray

There was a 3GT in the showroom. Like the fatter uglier twin. Bonkers.
Racing Teatray

simonp wrote:
I'm not much of a BMW fan, but that model is the one I'd have. Still not sure why they make the 3GT alongside it, though...


Oddly, it's not that I'm a huge BMW fan. It's just that my wife strongly prefers saloons to estates, so the fastback shape is a good compromise and there aren't many of those to choose from.

I looked at the new S5 Sportback and, whilst there was a surprisingly good deal available on one of those two considering it hasn't actually launched yet AND Audi offer a dark metallic green as an option, the price on PCP wasn't nearly as keen. The difference was around £75 per month more over the 440i on a like-for-like spec despite the S5 having a much higher GFV (£23k vs £17k), which makes me suspicious that one's retained equity at the end of the PCP on the Audi might not be all that great whereas BMW seem to judge it pretty conservatively (for which read "well").

And that's before you consider that the reviews for the 440i have been very positive and the reviews for the new S5 in coupe flavour have been decidedly lukewarm, plus it is a backward step styling-wise compared to the original S5 Sportback.

S7 is too expensive, XE-S is very expensive on PCP, likewise the C43 AMG (which has also had lukewarm reviews), the Giulia is only interesting in Q4 form and that's way too expensive.
Martin

Sounds very nice.

I'd add comfort access to your spec (not expensive on the 3/4 and you'd benefit every day) and upgrade the leather to further separate it from the M135i.  I wouldn't be able to resist voodoo LEDs either....
Clunes

What sort of monthly are these coming out at with the discount and low APR? (Ballpark).

As alluded to elsewhere the Jag may be in need of a change and I'm looking at options.

O
gonnabuildabuggy

Funnily enough I followed one earlier today and noted to myself how good they looked.

I agree on your reasons that the time to buy is now.

Also this bit is a key attraction to me as well "A key feature of the interior of the 4GC for us is the boot space, the idea being that this represents a slinkier yet still practical alternative to a 3er Touring given that my wife has an aversion to estate cars".

Much as Estates are handy, it's the hatch which is the big help unless you are lugging washing machines about.

A5/4er/A7 have a large attraction. As does the XK coupe/TT for the same reason if less practical overall.
Frank Bullitt

Re: 440i Gran Coupe

I like the 4GC, especially in the right spec - agree with Martin, I'd get the comfort access too - it's FG we have on the DS4 that I curse when going to open the A2 by grabbing the handle now, it's so useful.

Racing Teatray wrote:
I think it would be easily big enough for a family with a single child.


Speaking figuratively?!?
Martin

Clunes wrote:
What sort of monthly are these coming out at with the discount and low APR? (Ballpark).

As alluded to elsewhere the Jag may be in need of a change and I'm looking at options.

O


If you build a car on the BMW configurator, select 'Buy your BMW', which allows you to change the PCP parameters to work out the cost.  All you have to do is add the difference between the Broadspeed / Coast to a Coast cars discount and the quoted finance contribution to your deposit figure.

Simple.

Worth knowing that some options improve the GFV, e.g. M Sport Plus pack / Professional Nav, but most don't unfortunately.
Bryan M

The 4gc was my top choice for a new car, it was great in 420d form but the 440 must be epic. It was only the company car tax which put it behind the Merc.

Have you considered a nearly new A7 3.0tdi?
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Re: 440i Gran Coupe

Racing Teatray wrote:



Blimey - I reckon I could get my double bass in there! Been thinking a lot lately about an M140i too ...
Racing Teatray

Clunes wrote:
What sort of monthly are these coming out at with the discount and low APR? (Ballpark).

As alluded to elsewhere the Jag may be in need of a change and I'm looking at options.

O


£386 over 48 months. Which all things equalised and adjusted for warranties, road tax rates etc, is about £50pcm more than the M135i:

Hence not adding premium leather (£1215)/voodoo lights (£1600)/comfort access etc as they cost a lot without adding meaningfully to the GFV, so have a disproportionate effect on the monthly cost. If I had to pick one more option, it would be the leather dash(£815), as that adds greatly to the perceived quality, but all individual options lengthen delivery/order times quite considerably.
Racing Teatray

Interestingly, Mrs RT hasn't completely ruled it out, despite being convinced that there is nefarious man maths at work here. Mostly I think she's just happy it's not an old Porsche or Maserati!!

Colour-wise she thinks Carbon Black or Mineral Grey (sees no point in paying £845 for individual colours like Tanzanite Blue when CB/MG are free) and she agrees with me on Saddle Brown leather and walnut trim (we have fineline wood in the M135i, so going for walnut for a slightly different look).
Twelfth Monkey

I'm comprehensively out of sync here - that lights no fire under me whatever.
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I'm comprehensively out of sync here - that lights no fire under me whatever.


Doesn't need to I don't think. Racing wants a new car and is using impending parent hood as man-reasoning. Thinks like most new parents that a 7.5 tonne truck will be needed but will settle for something a bit bigger than the 1er. Estates are bit too dull so a fast back fits the bill. That all narrows it down to an A5 or the bimmer.

With all that in mind a tastefully specced 440 GC is going to be a lovely thing.

Though I suspect you are right 12th and the lack of fire will mean Racing will chop it in within the first 2 years for a Maserati GranTurismo  
Andy C

Racing Teatray wrote:
Clunes wrote:
What sort of monthly are these coming out at with the discount and low APR? (Ballpark).

As alluded to elsewhere the Jag may be in need of a change and I'm looking at options.

O


£386 over 48 months. Which all things equalised and adjusted for warranties, road tax rates etc, is about £50pcm more than the M135i:

Hence not adding premium leather (£1215)/voodoo lights (£1600)/comfort access etc as they cost a lot without adding meaningfully to the GFV, so have a disproportionate effect on the monthly cost. If I had to pick one more option, it would be the leather dash(£815), as that adds greatly to the perceived quality, but all individual options lengthen delivery/order times quite considerably.


Looks and sounds great.  I've said before ... a 340i touring is hugely appealing.

I thought the voodoo lights (icon adaptive is the correct name?) were about £700?
Tim

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I'm comprehensively out of sync here - that lights no fire under me whatever.


+1 sort of.
I like the thought of the performance but otherwise the car is relatively unappealing.
Martin

Andy - they are less on the 3 when you add the M Sport Plus pack because that gives you (more basic) LEDs.  The 4 series has Xenons as standard so the upgrade cost is greater / the sams as on the 5 series.

It sounds like it doesn't really need any man maths to justify, but I'm impressed with Racings tactic of looking at old stuff to scare Mrs Racing into agreeing to a brand new car.
Racing Teatray

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I'm comprehensively out of sync here - that lights no fire under me whatever.


It's not necessarily lighting huge fires for me. Hence prevaricating. But find me something that really does light fires for the same outlay? New, petrol-powered, 4/5drs, fast, decently spacious, well-equipped, doesn't glug fuel like Oliver Reed, and yours for £6k down and under £400pcm?

Also, I looked at eg RS4 Avants but, apart from her estate car aversion, the fuel bills and the fact they don't fall within budget easily, Mrs RT has made it quite clear that she won't countenance swapping our immaculate owned-from-new 4 yr old car for a similarly aged one or younger car where "we don't know how it has been treated". So she will only agree to a replacement that is new and therefore comes with all the benefits of being new (warranty/servicing deal/fresh consumables/latest tech/latest eco-creds). And, not being stupid, she only really likes this deal because the discount on offer effectively knocks off the VAT and the APR is very low, therefore negating some of the issues around buying new.
Nice Guy Eddie

Why don't you get the missus into something like the 440i and then you can drive whatever the hell you like.

Works well for me. Got Mrs Ed the 3 series Touring, shes happy because its got red leather and therefore she doesn't get a say, or isn't bothered on what I have.
Racing Teatray

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
Why don't you get the missus into something like the 440i and then you can drive whatever the hell you like.

Works well for me. Got Mrs Ed the 3 series Touring, shes happy because its got red leather and therefore she doesn't get a say, or isn't bothered on what I have.


My wife's idea is that if we get this, then she can perhaps get a 2-seat roadster. She's clearly a little tired of the 500 and one of her friends at work commutes in a smart dark blue Z4, so that has got her thinking about eg a 124 Spider. Apparently she spent some time poking around in one at the dealership the other week whilst waiting for her 500 to be serviced and she likes it and thought the pricing reasonable.

I'd be up for that/an MX-5
PhilD

Joint test of MX5 and 124 in Evo recently and despite being identical the tan leather in the Fiat made it look a cut above. It's actually a nicely designed interior so specced well it won't lose out much to a Z4 (in fact it's quite similar)
Twelfth Monkey

Racing Teatray wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I'm comprehensively out of sync here - that lights no fire under me whatever.


It's not necessarily lighting huge fires for me. Hence prevaricating. But find me something that really does light fires for the same outlay? New, petrol-powered, 4/5drs, fast, decently spacious, well-equipped, doesn't glug fuel like Oliver Reed, and yours for £6k down and under £400pcm?

Also, I looked at eg RS4 Avants but, apart from her estate car aversion, the fuel bills and the fact they don't fall within budget easily, Mrs RT has made it quite clear that she won't countenance swapping our immaculate owned-from-new 4 yr old car for a similarly aged one or younger car where "we don't know how it has been treated". So she will only agree to a replacement that is new and therefore comes with all the benefits of being new (warranty/servicing deal/fresh consumables/latest tech/latest eco-creds). And, not being stupid, she only really likes this deal because the discount on offer effectively knocks off the VAT and the APR is very low, therefore negating some of the issues around buying new.


I can see the logic, sorry, my comment reads as a bid snide in isolation.  We went from the Passat (which was colossal) to the A3 (which was not) with two young kids and coped just fine.  But then I didn't undertake many trans-continental journeys!
simonp

Which derivatives of the 4GC come with XDrive (if any)?
Racing Teatray

simonp wrote:
Which derivatives of the 4GC come with XDrive (if any)?


Either the 420i or take your pick of the diesels. The 440i comes with xDrive on the continent, but not here...
Chip Butty

The engine they put in all the 40i models is apparently new (B58 or some such) and it apparently has much better spread of torque and torque peak than the old engine (same torque peak as the tweaked old engine they use in the M2).

There are some silly figures being bandied around on Pistonheads (M140i manual/auto 0 to 100 mph times of 10.6 secs and 9.9 secs respectively) - but in truth the auto must be sub 11 seconds.

I can't think of another power train that melds performance, sound quality and fuel economy to the same extent.

It's amazing how much more horsepower you need just to shave a second off those 0 to 100 times. Unless you are a total headcase who regularly drives at 150 mph, when precisely in this country is an M3/M5/XFR/C63 AMG going to be noticeably and decisively quicker ?.
Racing Teatray

Does anyone know whether the clever-clogs high-beam assist feature works with the standard xenons or whether it only comes with the "Icon LED" upgraded lights?

My biggest dilemma at the moment is whether or not to add adaptive suspension. I have it on the M135i but am not clear it's an essential feature for £515.
Martin

John can tell you how good it is, as he's got Adaptive Xenons on his.  The principle is the same, but it uses blanking to cut the beam off rather than having multiple LEDs (inc what appear to be searchlights for the side of the road) to give you the optimum beam patterns.

I'd be loathed to go back having regular use of Adaptive Xenons as well.  They don't have high beam assist but do have an additional high beam bulb so main beam is very bright (when you can use it)
Racing Teatray

I have adaptive and high-beam assist on the M135i. Just never use the latter (given it is a bit dim-witted) and not clear on the necessity of the former.
Martin

The high beam assist in yours is just on/off with a more basic sensor,  the variable systems have a camera that tracks cars (light sources) and react as quickly as you can manually leaving as much high beam for as long as possible.  

In mine, the high beam moves and gradually decreases as a car approaches, so if you're mid corner and a car is coming the other way, you will always get full beam on your side of the road as the right hand side reduces and the left headlight turns into the corner.

It's the one good thing about the darker evenings.
Racing Teatray

So (and apologies if I am being slow on the uptake), you don't need the voodoo LEDs to have the new-generation adaptive system. If that's the case, I could reconsider.
Bryan M

Does the 4gc come with standard elec seats? I can't get on with the manual 3/4er adjustment at all. Lift height adjustment and plunge to the floor!
simonp

Racing Teatray wrote:
simonp wrote:
Which derivatives of the 4GC come with XDrive (if any)?


Either the 420i or take your pick of the diesels. The 440i comes with xDrive on the continent, but not here...


Pah, I'm out in that case, unless that changes in the next couple of years. The roads dan 'ere are a mess so RWD doesn't appeal, rather like a 4 pot or diesel Beemer.
Martin

Racing Teatray wrote:
So (and apologies if I am being slow on the uptake), you don't need the voodoo LEDs to have the new-generation adaptive system. If that's the case, I could reconsider.


The Xenon system is a half way house, it uses the same sensor, but it's still just one bulb that does everything, so it can't be as flexible and as the bulb is being partially covered, probably isn't as bright.  The cornering light is much more effective as well as it's in the main unit.

The headlight unit is the same on the 4GC so you don't get a visual improvement like you do on the 5 series and as you're coming from normal Xenons, it's difficult to justify the extra.  Remember that you need Adaptive Xenons with high beam assist to get the functionality, which reduces the gap to full LEDs (down to under £1000 in my case after discount)

Bryan M wrote:
Does the 4gc come with standard elec seats? I can't get on with the manual 3/4er adjustment at all. Lift height adjustment and plunge to the floor!


It does on the 25d and above, after having manual seats in the 320d hire car, I agree that they are essential.
Nice Guy Eddie

Chip Butty wrote:
The engine they put in all the 40i models is apparently new (B58 or some such) and it apparently has much better spread of torque and torque peak than the old engine (same torque peak as the tweaked old engine they use in the M2).

There are some silly figures being bandied around on Pistonheads (M140i manual/auto 0 to 100 mph times of 10.6 secs and 9.9 secs respectively) - but in truth the auto must be sub 11 seconds.

I can't think of another power train that melds performance, sound quality and fuel economy to the same extent.

It's amazing how much more horsepower you need just to shave a second off those 0 to 100 times. Unless you are a total headcase who regularly drives at 150 mph, when precisely in this country is an M3/M5/XFR/C63 AMG going to be noticeably and decisively quicker ?.


The 140i is as quick as the M2 until you hit over 100mph. I guess the point of all these M/AMG/RS models is they're supposed to add a load of fun at normal speeds, certainly true of my Cayman but will be interesting to see how true it is in the M2
Nice Guy Eddie

Bryan M wrote:
Does the 4gc come with standard elec seats? I can't get on with the manual 3/4er adjustment at all. Lift height adjustment and plunge to the floor!


Manual seats are a joke in BMW's, you have no chance of adjusting the back rest whilst on the move. I would be interested in Electric seats but you sit far too high in the 3 series with the manual seats so with electric your probably adding another couple of centimetres onto the height due to all the electrical gubbins
Martin

As you can see, there's a bit more to the Voodoo LEDs

PhilD

Great poster Martin. Is that up in your bedroom or the study?
Andy C

How does the engine compare to the rs3 just out of interest ?

Bit of a shame the 3/440i doesn't get the 140i engine upgrade
simonp

PhilD wrote:
Great poster Martin. Is that up in your bedroom or the study?


Bathroom. Tissue close at hand there...
Martin

PhilD wrote:
Great poster Martin. Is that up in your bedroom or the study?




I'm a long way from being that bad / geeky, just trying to be helpful.
Racing Teatray

Andy C wrote:
How does the engine compare to the rs3 just out of interest ?

Bit of a shame the 3/440i doesn't get the 140i engine upgrade


The RS3 engine noise makes you giggle. The 440i doesn't.

However the RS3 saloon is likely to fall short on timing for delivery and size/practicality. And quite possibly expense.
Giant

Martin wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Great poster Martin. Is that up in your bedroom or the study?




I'm a long way from being that bad / geeky, just trying to be helpful.


The first stage of recovery is acceptance of the problem, denial won't help you!  
Giant

Racing Teatray wrote:
Andy C wrote:
How does the engine compare to the rs3 just out of interest ?

Bit of a shame the 3/440i doesn't get the 140i engine upgrade


The RS3 engine noise makes you giggle. The 440i doesn't.

However the RS3 saloon is likely to fall short on timing for delivery and size/practicality. And quite possibly expense.


I thought I'd read that the RS3 saloon wasn't coming to the uk?
Racing Teatray

Giant wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Andy C wrote:
How does the engine compare to the rs3 just out of interest ?

Bit of a shame the 3/440i doesn't get the 140i engine upgrade


The RS3 engine noise makes you giggle. The 440i doesn't.

However the RS3 saloon is likely to fall short on timing for delivery and size/practicality. And quite possibly expense.


I thought I'd read that the RS3 saloon wasn't coming to the uk?


Not sure where you read that. I had an email from Audi UK inviting me to register my interest.
gooner

Just don't go raiding the custom paint options as whoever ordered this one did:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610018312216
Racing Teatray

Ha, no. Proper individual paint is around £2k, and that's a little dear given that Carbon Black is free. So I think CB it will be, although Mrs RT quite likes Mineral Grey.
Twelfth Monkey

gooner wrote:
Just don't go raiding the custom paint options as whoever ordered this one did:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610018312216


That must lop 10-20% off its resale value.  Or 100%, if the potential purchaser was me...
PhilD

Easy to find in a car park.
Twelfth Monkey

Yep.  Aim for the highest concentration of vomit on the ground.
JohnC

Bit late to this since I am just back from a few days in Harrogate/York area.

The adaptive Xenon's are great. I do a fair bit of winter driving on A and B roads and the lights always get back on to full beam ASAP. When you are following a car, the light splits either side and really lights up the road without blinding the other driver. It is a bit odd though because there is a shadowed area around the car in front which looks like a black box - weird until you get used to it.
Martin's adaptive LED's are the next generation and effectively make my mechanical ones seem old hat but I wouldn't order a car without them now whichever was available.

The 4 series is a car that can cover the ground very quickly but when you really hassle it, things get a bit untidy, regardless of which setting I have my suspension in (I have the adaptive suspension). I like the extra compliance I get in day to day driving from the comfort setting although the Sport setting firms things up a bit, I think it doesn't do as good a job on a twisty A or B road as the comfort setting which allows a bit more horizontal movement of the suspension. It's not a sports car in the way it feels but at the same time only a sports car could keep up with the speed at which it can cover the ground. On smoother continental roads the Sports setting would probably work a good bit better in the twisty bits.

I think it makes a great family car.

I'd also have to have the comfort access and the storage pack but on a PCP I can fully appreciate the dismay which might ensue from a higher monthly payment for little/no perceived benefit depending on your view or use of these things.
Bob Sacamano

So I have these 3 settings on the button to the right of my gearlever - Eco Pro - Normal - Sport. What, is anything, does it do to the ride?
JohnC

Bob Sacamano wrote:
So I have these 3 settings on the button to the right of my gearlever - Eco Pro - Normal - Sport. What, is anything, does it do to the ride?


Nothing unless you have the adaptive suspension. EcoPro just dampens the throttle and does everything to use less fuel. Normal is just that and Sport sharpens up throttle response, keeps the car in a lower gear more of the time and changes the steering feel a bit.

Adaptive suspension gives different suspension settings in conjunction with the above.
PG

Racing Teatray wrote:
The RS3 engine noise makes you giggle. The 440i doesn't.


Can you fit a sports exhaust to the 440i? That make it sound more interesting.

I think the 4GC frameless doors are a lovely touch by BMW. They really let you know that you're not getting in and out of a 3 series hatchback.
Racing Teatray

Yes, you can. Along with a dealer-fit BMW power kit that bumps output to 360bhp.
Big Blue

Racing Teatray wrote:
Yes, you can. Along with a dealer-fit BMW power kit that bumps output to 360bhp.


You've not looked into this at all, have you?

Racing Teatray

Perish the thought!

In other developments, Mrs RT is going to the dealership tomorrow to take a look for herself as it is after all just 5 minutes from her office.

She will either come back and say yes let's go for it or tell me that I am out of my mind...
Big Blue

There is a possibility she'll do both
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Racing Teatray wrote:
Ha, no. Proper individual paint is around £2k, and that's a little dear given that Carbon Black is free. So I think CB it will be, although Mrs RT quite likes Mineral Grey.

Carbon Black is free? Not even the usual 500 quid for anything other than flat white? End of discussion then, it's my favourite BMW colour.
Racing Teatray

Yes metallic paint is free on the 440i GC which is a remarkably well-equipped car by BMW's normal standards, and one of the choices is Carbon Black (only available on MSport versions of the GC - not available on the coupe or convertible).
Andy C

Tanzanite blue is hands down my favourite colour , but then I do like mineral grey and glacier silver too

How much is that power upgrade?
Martin

Andy C wrote:
Tanzanite blue is hands down my favourite colour , but then I do like mineral grey and glacier silver too


+1

There was a Tanzanite Blue M3, with competition pack and full silverstone leather at the BMW dealer on Monday and it looked fantastic.  I'd even live with the wheels the rest looked so good.
JohnC

This one has been around for a while and I will admit I keep going back to have a look!

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/M/3.0-s...673-3497110.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

However Carbon Black is one of my all time favourites too, so if money needed to change hands to get Tanzanite instead of Carbon, I would be just as happy with Carbon Black.
Racing Teatray

Oddly my wife isn't mad on Tanzanite (although it would be my pick) and it's not worth £845 extra over CB given it adds precisely zero to the GFV.

I don't go a bundle on silverstone leather or opal white myself. We are likely to go for saddle brown out of the free options. Coral would be nice but we have a black BMW with red seats currently, so a degree of visible change inside is desirable given that otherwise the interiors are not vastly different. Again the upgraded individual leathers add nothing to the GFV and also any individual feature adds considerably to the build time. That wouldn't normally matter much, but I'd like to get it this year to be certain of skipping the price increases (none of the dealers would commit to the current price past year end).
Martin

JohnC wrote:
This one has been around for a while and I will admit I keep going back to have a look!

http://usedcars.bmw.co.uk/M/3.0-s...673-3497110.aspx?srcmdc=se_na_re_

However Carbon Black is one of my all time favourites too, so if money needed to change hands to get Tanzanite instead of Carbon, I would be just as happy with Carbon Black.


That's very nice.
Tim

It's very nice on the outside but I loathe pale leather.

I'd agree with Racing's colour choice but would stick with the red leather.
Martin

It's nice to have a contrast inside, but after 5 years of light leather I needed a break / reduction in the need to clean it.  I'm not sure I'd go for an all black interior next time but it depends on the car.  The problem with Saddle Brown is the brown (plastic) lower dashboard.
JohnC

I think the sunroof in an MSport BMW is essential to lift an otherwise black interior but the alternative is the light coloured leather.

I have some leather protector which helps stop dye transfer and I use it on my MIL's car which has cream seats but I don't think I could buy a car with black headlining and seats, without the sunroof.

You can get an M4 with a sunroof but it loses the carbon roof and probably a lot of its resale attractiveness/value.
PhilD

Martin wrote:
The problem with Saddle Brown is the brown (plastic) lower dashboard.


Obviously I bow down to your superior BMW knowledge Martin but the configurator I just lost 20 minutes of my life to let me spec saddle brown without the dash?
Racing Teatray

PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
The problem with Saddle Brown is the brown (plastic) lower dashboard.


Obviously I bow down to your superior BMW knowledge Martin but the configurator I just lost 20 minutes of my life to let me spec saddle brown without the dash?


As far as I can tell, the Luxury version of the GC (anyway not available on the 440i) gets the matching lower dash with saddle leather. However, on the MSport version, the only colour where you get the matching lower dash is Coral Red. The rest come with an entirely black dash. The only exception is if you order one of the Individual leather colours with the Individual leather dash, and then you get the top part of the dash in black leather and the lower half in leather of the same colour as the seats.
Racing Teatray

JohnC wrote:
I think the sunroof in an MSport BMW is essential to lift an otherwise black interior but the alternative is the light coloured leather.

You can get an M4 with a sunroof but it loses the carbon roof and probably a lot of its resale attractiveness/value.


Yes, sunroof essential. I found the 4GC I tried gloomy without it.

Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.
PhilD

You mean you can't feel the lower CoG when giving it a dab of oppo round Hyde park Corner?
Martin

Racing Teatray wrote:
PhilD wrote:
Martin wrote:
The problem with Saddle Brown is the brown (plastic) lower dashboard.


Obviously I bow down to your superior BMW knowledge Martin but the configurator I just lost 20 minutes of my life to let me spec saddle brown without the dash?


As far as I can tell, the Luxury version of the GC (anyway not available on the 440i) gets the matching lower dash with saddle leather. However, on the MSport version, the only colour where you get the matching lower dash is Coral Red. The rest come with an entirely black dash. The only exception is if you order one of the Individual leather colours with the Individual leather dash, and then you get the top part of the dash in black leather and the lower half in leather of the same colour as the seats.


That's what I must have seen, much better to have an all black dashboard.

I'm not as much of a geek as you all think!  
JohnC

Racing Teatray wrote:
Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.


Just going by what I was told by a salesman, that M cars without a carbon roof are very difficult to shift. I agree though, I would rather have the sunroof than a carbon roof.
PhilD

Martin wrote:


I'm not as much of a geek as you all think!  


I suspect subterfuge...
Tim

My M5 has black leather, carpets, dash and headlining. The only thing that lifts it is the titanium trim on the dash and doors.
However I don't consider it particularly dark, possibly because it has large windows and slim pillars and even with the seat at its lowest setting you're still not peering over the door tops in contrast to so many modern cars.
It has a steel sunroof so there's no light from that unless its open.
Big Blue

JohnC wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.


Just going by what I was told by a salesman, that M cars without a carbon roof are very difficult to shift. I agree though, I would rather have the sunroof than a carbon roof.


This is because used M3 buyers are deluded and think the car is better / faster-round-the-Nürburgring with a carbon roof and need to say so down the pub.

They also need to laugh at M4 owners.
Frank Bullitt

Big Blue wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.


Just going by what I was told by a salesman, that M cars without a carbon roof are very difficult to shift. I agree though, I would rather have the sunroof than a carbon roof.


This is because used M3 buyers are deluded and think the car is better / faster-round-the-Nürburgring with a carbon roof and need to say so down the pub.

They also need to laugh at M4 owners.


Just what I was thinking
Tim

Big Blue wrote:

This is because used M3 buyers are deluded and think the car is better / faster-round-the-Nürburgring with a carbon roof and need to say so down the pub.

They also need to laugh at M4 owners.


Isn't that back to front under the new regime with the 4 door (M3) having a steel roof?
I know that was the case for the last gen M3, only the 2 door got the silly roof.
Martin

Both have a carbon roof and I agree with BB on the reasons behind the different residuals.
Big Blue

You lot are slow today. They're laughing at the M4 owners because their car is called M4. As per the other thread I started.
PhilD

It's the fashion - carbon is the new go faster stripes. No one wold be seen dead with them these days.
Frank Bullitt

PhilD wrote:
It's the fashion - carbon is the new go faster stripes. No one wold be seen dead with them these days.


I'd like to think of it as the modern version of one of those rubber lightning conductors, of no real benefit but it makes you feel better
Big Blue

PhilD wrote:
It's the fashion - carbon is the new go faster stripes. No one wold be seen dead with them these days.


I'm the old fashioned type. I'm having a vinyl roof fitted next spring.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

Racing Teatray wrote:
Yes, sunroof essential. I found the 4GC I tried gloomy without it.

Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.

Wow! That's how preferences and prejudices can vary - I would never pay extra for a sunroof, and if I couldn't have the car without it, that would be a deal breaker. It's up there with tinted side windows ...
Frank Bullitt

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Yes, sunroof essential. I found the 4GC I tried gloomy without it.

Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.

Wow! That's how preferences and prejudices can vary - I would never pay extra for a sunroof, and if I couldn't have the car without it, that would be a deal breaker. It's up there with tinted side windows ...


Sunroofs are fantastic, given half a chance I'd always go for one
Sav

Carbon Black is indeed lovely, Black Sapphire isn’t a bad colour, but Carbon is that much nicer with the hint of blue. And considering it is a standard colour on the CG, it’s a no-brainer. Mineral Grey looks a bit drab in comparison. Tanzanite Blue would be the ultimate for me, costly though.

You can explain the power and torque difference between the 340/440 and the M140/M240 because the latter are M Performance models, and the former are not. However, the new 540i will get the same power output as the M performance models. I give up….

A few people have done sub-10 second runs to 100 mph in the M240i. Autocar tested the E60 M5 at 9.7 seconds to 100 mph, the M240i does it in 9.8 secs. But the M5 had 507 bhp. It is exceptional performance considering not only the lesser power, but the lesser price. At least with the 1 and Series, this B58 unit really does seem to be the last opportunity to buy a car of this size with 6 cylinders at reasonable-ish prices, with how the next 1-Series is going in a different direction compared to the next 3-Series.
PhilD

Frank Bullitt wrote:
Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Yes, sunroof essential. I found the 4GC I tried gloomy without it.

Cannot for the life of me work out why an M4 with a sunroof and no carbon roof would have a lower resale value than one without the sunroof and with the carbon roof.

I mean, it makes zero difference to my life whether the roof is carbon or not, not least because I don't even find it especially attractive.

Wow! That's how preferences and prejudices can vary - I would never pay extra for a sunroof, and if I couldn't have the car without it, that would be a deal breaker. It's up there with tinted side windows ...


Sunroofs are fantastic, given half a chance I'd always go for one


Multiple sunroofs and glass roofs even better. The lack of them is one of the things that puts me off older cars.
gonnabuildabuggy

PhilD wrote:
Multiple sunroofs and glass roofs even better. The lack of them is one of the things that puts me off older cars.


Agree, though hard to find them on most cars as not the widely spec'd

I'd go for a sunroof over a glass roof I think?

The Merc's twin glass roofs with the front sliding was brilliant, some much so that it was one of my main criteria for the Mini. The Mini really needs the glass as it feels a lot smaller inside without it.
Roadrunner

I would struggle to buy a car without a sunroof. It is one of the first option boxes I tick, along with a sound system upgrade.
JohnC

Roadrunner wrote:
I would struggle to buy a car without a sunroof. It is one of the first option boxes I tick, along with a sound system upgrade.


Those two are pretty much at the top of my list too - it's much more classy that everyone gets to hear the music through the open sunroof than through the open window
Martin

As soon as I could get a car with aircon (first was a 406 back in 1996), I wasn't interested in a sunroof at all, there were plenty of other options I wanted a lot more.  It was different with the 535d as I wanted an all black interior, which was too dark without the panoramic roof.  If there had been a cheaper fixed option I would probably have gone for that, but I'm really glad it opens, as I use it a lot.  It helps that it has a pre-set position (80ish% open) that means no buffeting at all and acceptable noise at motorway speeds, as fully open is a bit annoying above 35mph unless you have a window down.

I like that it has a proper solid sliding cover and doesn't stick out above the car when it's open.

It's not a non-negotiable like a decent sound system and memory seats, especially if it's not a panoramic one, but it's likely my next car will have a sunroof.
PhilD

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


I'd go for a sunroof over a glass roof I think?



I'm not sure I need opening/air so much as light and the view.
gonnabuildabuggy

Martin wrote:
As soon as I could get a car with aircon (first was a 406 back in 1996), I wasn't interested in a sunroof at all, there were plenty of other options I wanted a lot more.
.

I'd go for aircon over a sunroof (standard air con was one reason for my 405) but now I've had a few sunroofs and remembered how nice they are then it's becoming a requirement. FRV hasn't got one (nor was it an option) but I've only been looking at RX's with one fitted.
Dr. Hfuhruhurr

PhilD wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


I'd go for a sunroof over a glass roof I think?



I'm not sure I need opening/air so much as light and the view.

Likewise - I'd be happy with a panoramic roof, but it wouldn't need to open. If I wanted that, I'd get a convertible.
Big Blue

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:
PhilD wrote:
gonnabuildabuggy wrote:


I'd go for a sunroof over a glass roof I think?



I'm not sure I need opening/air so much as light and the view.

Likewise - I'd be happy with a panoramic roof, but it wouldn't need to open. If I wanted that, I'd get a convertible.


+1, although mine opens. It's nice to let the light in and even nicer to look up at the stars in the sky whilst being serviced during dogging.
JohnC

I open my sunroof on almost every journey except when it's raining or very cold. It's so nice to have the air around you without all the exposure you get from a convertible. It adds a degree of enjoyment I didn't realise I missed, until I got a sunroof again (haven't had one since my mega mile days in 2 Golf GTi's and my E300-24V, which was nearly 20 years ago!)
Roadrunner

JohnC wrote:
I open my sunroof on almost every journey except when it's raining or very cold. It's so nice to have the air around you without all the exposure you get from a convertible. It adds a degree of enjoyment I didn't realise I missed, until I got a sunroof again (haven't had one since my mega mile days in 2 Golf GTi's and my E300-24V, which was nearly 20 years ago!)


That's pretty much what I do every morning. Roof open, heated seat on and blast over the Cotswolds to the office, watching the golden sunrise reflected off the honey stones of Chipping Campden. Marvellous!
Frank Bullitt

My Punto had a normal sunroof and no A/C, given the choice it's A/C every time but I'd rather have both, the old A2 was lovely with open-sky and climate which would be my preference. Likewise, smarts with glass roofs alone bathing the cabin in light was lovely too.
gonnabuildabuggy

JohnC wrote:
I open my sunroof on almost every journey except when it's raining or very cold. It's so nice to have the air around you without all the exposure you get from a convertible. It adds a degree of enjoyment I didn't realise I missed, until I got a sunroof again (haven't had one since my mega mile days in 2 Golf GTi's and my E300-24V, which was nearly 20 years ago!)


Similar, roof open and heating blasting if it's cold. In all fairness I would prefer a convertible but practicalities tend to get in the way, and I've got one of those as well. When I had the 9-3 it was roof down every journey if I was on my own and it wasn't raining, one of the best trips I did was down to Devon in October late at night.

After A/c only cars from 1995 onwards it was Racing's mate's Golf GTI which reminded me how good they were. Since then all my purchases have had sunroofs (535, E500 (Panoramic) and Mini (Twin)).  It's a bit of a dilemma on next purchase as some cars seem to have the option of a roof or glass but not both.

Of course the ultimate is an 70's Classic with a Webasto.


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