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Twelfth Monkey

25 years of progress with tyres.

Autocar's 0-120-0 challenge was interesting, I hope that they start doing this again every year and get a larger field.  It set me thinking though, as the 650S beat the F1's 6.3s to 100 (6.19s).  If the F1 did 0-60 in 3.2 and 0-100 in 6.3 using tyres available 25 years ago, what could it do with the best road-legal rubber now?  I would have thought that it might be able to crack 3 and 6 respectively, but that's just hunch.  What do you think?
Chip Butty

I think fitting the 650s dual clutch gearbox would have a bigger impact than the latest tyres - although you do make a very valid point.

I bet if the 650s had a normal manual box, the acceleration times would be way off.
Chris M Wanted a V-10

I wish that tyres didn't puncture so easily and so often.....
I'd sacrifice a bit of grip for better durabilty and life
PhilD

Best not get yourself an F1 Chris...


JohnC

When I think back to the tyres we had when we were hillclimbing, sprinting and racing there were some pretty sticky compounds around. We used to use Yokohama 008Rs which were fantastic. There was some track based but still road legal Dunlops that came out and was marginally better in grip but less forgiving when they finally gave up.

Those tyres felt every bit as good as the ones we have today. There is a bridge near me which used to have a two lane slip road on to it and similar off the other side. An XR2 or GTi fitted with the Yokos would do both slip roads at 80 leptons with no problems at all, in its own lane (albeit that the Golf was only using 3 wheels!). They have now toned it down to one lane at each side and recently reduced the limit to 50mph but it used to be 70. Current cars on current road tyres were beginning to feel nearish the sensible limit at around the 70 mark so I am not sure the limits on tyres have changed massively for those at the top end of the grip scale.

I would think the difference in times would be influenced a bit more by gearbox, suspension geometry and possibly the brakes, provided both cars were equipped with the best tyres from both eras.

Writing the above and thinking of winter tyres I couldn't help but have a wry smile - in the summer we used to fit our cars with road legal race tyres. How things have changed.
Bob Sacamano

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
I wish that tyres didn't puncture so easily and so often.....
I'd sacrifice a bit of grip for better durabilty and life


I don't agree, tyres today don't puncture easily and more often than yesteryear.

I believe you're a unique case.
Twelfth Monkey

Chip Butty wrote:
I think fitting the 650s dual clutch gearbox would have a bigger impact than the latest tyres - although you do make a very valid point.

I bet if the 650s had a normal manual box, the acceleration times would be way off.


I'm certain that you are right.  Where's 'Ask Goodwin' when you need it, eh?
franki68

I find it amusing it's no longer 0-100-0.
Twelfth Monkey

The Atom always won*.  The notion of 120 was because the magazine is 120 years old.  They were joking that if they run it next year, maybe it ought to be 0-121-0...

(*Though probably wouldn't have beaten the 605S.)
PhilD

0- 100 used to disadvantage the big boys but I guess with launch control, turbos and stuff like torque fill it's no longer a problem.
Nice Guy Eddie

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Chip Butty wrote:
I think fitting the 650s dual clutch gearbox would have a bigger impact than the latest tyres - although you do make a very valid point.

I bet if the 650s had a normal manual box, the acceleration times would be way off.


I'm certain that you are right.  Where's 'Ask Goodwin' when you need it, eh?


On Evo website I think
Twelfth Monkey

PhilD wrote:
0- 100 used to disadvantage the big boys but I guess with launch control, turbos and stuff like torque fill it's no longer a problem.


You would think that was the case, but clearly not always.  

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-vide...vs-bmw-i8-vs-lexus-rc-f-drag-race

I'd have expected the M4 to win, but not on this occasion at least.
PhilD

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
PhilD wrote:
0- 100 used to disadvantage the big boys but I guess with launch control, turbos and stuff like torque fill it's no longer a problem.


You would think that was the case, but clearly not always.  

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-vide...vs-bmw-i8-vs-lexus-rc-f-drag-race

I'd have expected the M4 to win, but not on this occasion at least.


I meant in terms of Atom/Caterham/etc v Super/Hyper car. Good video though (and more i8 want)
Martin

The i8 was surprisingly quick, as much as the M3 was surprisingly slow.  How have the mags recorded such quick 0-60 times with such a lack of traction?
Stuntman

I also thought it was a shame that they didn't run this test as a 0-100-0.  I like the fact that you can compare the 0-100-0 times of current cars with those from the recent past; it would have been good to see how the current crop measured up (and with a wider selection of 2015 cars).

It's a bit like making this year's athletics sprint races 120m for the sake of a gimmick  
JohnC

Martin wrote:
The i8 was surprisingly quick, as much as the M3 was surprisingly slow.  How have the mags recorded such quick 0-60 times with such a lack of traction?


Given that launch control was designed for such things it seems stupid to put a lead footed hack in it and turn all the aids off. I have the feeling they needed to make sure that the right car won. I am quite happy with the result but I would rather see a proper race using the cars as they would be used on the road.
PhilD

JohnC wrote:
Martin wrote:
The i8 was surprisingly quick, as much as the M3 was surprisingly slow.  How have the mags recorded such quick 0-60 times with such a lack of traction?


Given that launch control was designed for such things it seems stupid to put a lead footed hack in it and turn all the aids off. I have the feeling they needed to make sure that the right car won. I am quite happy with the result but I would rather see a proper race using the cars as they would be used by 12th.


FYP.
Martin

A GT4 against a couple of vans and a small diesel hatch wouldn't have quite the same appeal!

John may well be right about them wanting a certain result and maybe they also wanted to prove a point as they've made such a fuss about the lack of traction.

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