| Archive for The Motor Forum talking cars since 2006 |
| Twelfth Monkey |
'Only 3500 miles from a pair of fronts is poor, but...'p67. Was expecting a darn sight more of a 'but' than 'the Focus has been worked very hard and we expect to go a lot further on the new boots.'Even if the 3500 miles have been all around a circuit surfaced entirely in sandpaper, that's absolutely piss-poor. |
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| Nice Guy Eddie |
Even Kevin and Wayne could get more then that out of their Corsas around Mcdonalds carpark. | ||||
| TimR |
That's astounding.
I presume the RS has full traction and stability control thus ensuring no tyre-wearing wheelspin or understeer. Unless of corse TC and stability is only for jessies and not real men like motoring journos..... |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
Further: 'The old ones looked only a little worn on the outside, but had totally had it on the inside.'
Setup is out of true, or a consequence of the torque-steer killing front suspension geometry? You'd have thought they would have queried the former... |
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| "him" |
Probably that, the LSD and the small matter of 300BHP. Don't forget an LSD is not a 'traction control device' in that it limits power, it merely distributes power across the axle. So it will wear both tyres out rather than just the inside one... Interestingly 'Twelfth' your car doesn't' have an LSD on either axle (merely one to distribute power front to rear). How has your tyre wear been since the fitment of your LSD 'ALF'? |
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| TimR |
Yeah but surely their 3,500 miles includes some where they're not using all 300BHP and maximum torque? |
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| "him" |
They are journalists though... 
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| Giant |
Fixed your post 
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| Twelfth Monkey |
I believe that the new S & RS variants do. It'll be interesting to see how they drive. Back to the OP. Maybe it does need 4wd after all... |
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| Boxer6 |
Re: 'Only 3500 miles from a pair of fronts is poor, but...'
I used to get better than that from my ZX's (rears) ......... well, just!! 
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| PG |
That is pretty shocking. Any comments about the RS being a cheap high performance when compared to others are not really helped by new fronts every 3500 miles. | ||||
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
The obvious question is how many of those 3500 did Sutcliffe do? Because driving style can make a lot of difference. When I got the GT3, I heard lots of stories about going through rear tyres in similar mileage, but when I had the rears replaced on mine at 17000 they were far from knackered. | ||||
| TimR |
You must be a total jessie then Nick
I 'only' got 17k from the rears on my M5 and they were about done
Seriously though has the RS done those 3,500 miles on the road or track because if on road, well, I wouldn't want to meet them coming the other way on a twisty bit. Perhaps they were all done in Milton Keynes? |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I prefer to think of myself as a total jenson ... |
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| TimR |
Well, you both drive white cars although I have to say yours is much nicer looking (really what were Brawn thinking, lime green with white, Yuk). |
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| GonnaBreakABuggy |
Pfft, I managed to kill a set in well under 7k on the front of my 1.4, 3500 with over 3 times the horsepower sounds like a bargain to me
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| ALF |
If there is a lot of track use involved, then any comparison with road use is totally invalid. Some tyres (SO2's and Eagle F1's are famous for it) can "chunk" on a single trackday and fall to pieces.
Personally I get through a set of tyres in about 20-25k miles. I rotate the fronts to back when a bit over 2/3rds worn so they wear out similarly. This wear rate was true of the 2.5 156, the GTA, and the V6 Passat - that was 4WD so no rotating, it just wore them all out evenly at the same mileage! I'm a bit shocked that in 6k miles in the Audi I've worn the (replaced last summer) fronts at least half down, they are lasting a bit less well than the fronts on the Alfa. |
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| Stuntman |
Wearing through the fronts in 3500 is somewhat extreme. Presumably they aren't the ultra-soft cup-style tyres like you get on Exiges etc? They're supposed to last about 4000 with hard use.
NSXs are meant to be pretty hard on rear tyres, 6000 was supposedly good going for a set. I am quite hard on tyres, the worst I've ever done was on the VXT, I had all four replaced after 4500 miles but that did include 4 trackdays. On non-motorway driving I'd expect about 10,000 out of the rears for the Cayman and the M3. However, with my current commute I managed nearly 18,000 from the Cayman's rears and the fronts have now done about 25,000. |
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| Frank Bullitt |
Focus RS + Unsubtle Journo's = let's see how good this Revo Knuckle is out of tight bends on full-chat | ||||
| Pkh72 |
I think this is as far from representative of how things would last on a customers car as it's possible to get.
If anybody is in the market for a 2nd hand RS in 12 months time then i would check it isn't Autocars long termer. Another question that comes to mind is that if it needs to have new tyres this early they must have thrashed it's nuts off from day one. Little kids in a sweet shop springs to mind. |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Did you see the first report with them all camped around the car waiting for a go? |
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| Pkh72 |
Yep, it was like the second coming or something. Anyway, seems like one has already bitten the dust - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassin...0&nmt=Badly%20damaged%20RS%20(New%20one) |
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| Turbonutter |
That's what I was thinking too......
How many of those miles were driven like they stole it! ISTR when the Honda NSX came out they specced very soft compound Yokos and that combined with the geometry meant 5k was a good life for the tyres. Gordon Murray was one of the owners who tried revised rear geo with success when they had a review in the old Performance Car mag. Also seem to remember Autocar's Long term Integrales being tyre devourers...... ( partly due to to the wheels pointing in different directions on delivery ( poor PDI ).....and being succeptible to the settings "shifting" after pothole knocks etc ) I think a lot of Lexus Is200s had a similar issue with the factory settings resulting in excessive shoulder wear - seems to be a common complaint on the owners forum and a lot of people go to the WiM settings. Most settings are a trade-off - if the tyre isn't wearing evenly, then they are probably either running extreme negative camber or more likely a toe setting that is at odds with tyre life. Toe will kill the tyre edge quickly on the inside like described though. I'd be surprised if the Megane that wears those Toyo 888s gets much more than 5k miles out the fronts though - be interesting to hear but they wear much quicker than 'normal' tyres on mine ( partly as they start off with less tread depth than 'normal' tyres - not sure whether the Megane is specced with the soft or medium 888 though ) |
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| Matt |
Anyone willing to simulate 3.5k miles from a set of fronts?! | ||||
| Blarno |
I had a full set of 4 fitted to Blue Frog in January 2008. I've done about 7k since and the fronts still have the nobbles on the sides! | ||||
| "him" |
How many of those 7k were done with those tyres on the car though? | ||||
| Gurney |
Very pleased with wear rates on the GTA, will probably replace them before 20,000 but I imagine they will go further unless I do any trackdays.
The smart doesn't appear to have worn at all (18,000 miles) despite the vast HP going through the rear tyres. 3,500 is shocking, one would hope it's track related if not it will be interesting to see how Autocar reports it. |
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| Blarno |
All bar about 1k, I would guess. | ||||
| DaveGibson |
I'm obviously not trying with the IS. After over 20,000 miles I've still got 4mm left all round. If that continues I'll be looking to replace them at about 35,000. | ||||
| GonnaBreakABuggy |
The way I see it, UV damages the tyres and makes them go hard, slippery and start cracking anyway, so I'd better use them before it happens
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| Frank Bullitt |
We replaced the fronts at about 45K on the old one, rears were replaced at 55K, a little early due to a puncture as they still had 3mm on them! |
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| Humphrey The Pug |
Sorry to get through a set of fronts in 3500 miles you would have to be driving like a complete and utter cunt. | ||||
| TimR |
I'm trying to wear out the fronts on the Fiat because they're so shit in all weather.
I can get full throttle (i.e. not dropping the clutch) wheelspin in first on a perfectly smooth dry road and there's been a few times in the wet where, as full boost appears in 3rd, they've been overwhelmed 
That didn't happen with a worn set of Goodyear F1s on it before. |
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| "him" |
What tyres are they?
I can't get any at all from mine these days, sometimes I feel the tyre "overspeed" (© John Barker), but wheelspin doesn't ever take hold. |
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| TimR |
They're Federal (585s ? I'd go outside to check but it's pissing down).
I researched them a bit, they didn't seem too bad and they certainly weren't a bargain bucket option. If I'd had more time I would've sought out more F1s but time was of the essence as the inside shoulders were through to the canvas due to some tracking issues. |
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| Apex clipper |
Mine scrub the insides after about 9k, it wouldn't have anything to do with different drivers scalping the car for first impressions would it?(The mk 2 I mean)
I want one of these for crimbo...badly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmQ450ctKJs |
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| Gurney |
Noticed in the roadtest mistress Parrot said the 3,500 miles taken to destroy the tyres on the RS was 'mostly on the road'.
Holy shit, that alone would rule it out instantly for me, I simply couldn't afford the outlay - presuming I could get 7-8,000 miles by virtue of not being such a pillock. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
The word from the horse's mouth is that it had actually been trashed around several circuits, and that 9-10k should be a reasonable expectation for road use. Not great, but certainly not dreadful given the power and torque going through two front tyres. | ||||
| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
And given that they're swappable front to rear, unlike in most powerful RWD cars. | ||||
| "him" |
That would make yours "interesting" to drive wouldn't it... |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
Not that the rears would fit anyway. They'd be sticking out as on a Euro-look Polo! | ||||
| Guitar Zero |
The week before my ST was " liberated " from the oppression of ownership - I had to order new front tyres as they were down to the wear marker
At 7,400 miles Why this should be so given the fact that the Dee Five's lasted 15k miles even though they had 300 lbs ft put through them remains a mystery. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
p77 of this week's mag. Onto its third set at 7k. I get the impression that they are thrashing it mercilessly... | ||||
| Eff One |
Indeed. There is video evidence of the fact on Autocar's website, in fact: http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/an...17/chasing-the-ford-focus-rs.aspx
That Clio is pretty impressive even if the colour is deeply horrible. I wonder how much of its pace here is down to Sutcliffe's talents behind the wheel? |
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| Dr. Hfuhruhurr |
I was wondering the same. Sounds like a seriously able car if you can cope with the looks, anyway. |
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| Matt |
The Clio is a bit of a bobfoc though, sadly.
Nice GT3 RS-inspired Green, though. |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
Apparently it's now on its fourth set at 11k. The last lot having lasted 4k, largely on the road. Wear seems concentrated on the inner edge, so either the setup is out or the trick suspension works the tyres in this way.
Either way, not really good enough. |
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| Pkh72 |
I was going to comment on this too.
It can't all be down to their driving can it surely? It'll be interesting to find out how long the tyres are lasting in 'normal' peoples hands rather than in the mags hands. The more i read long term reports in various magazines the less i think they are actually in any way relevant to Jo Publics life and they are in fact just a nice freebie perk of the job. The majority of the cars seem to go back to the manufacturer around the 10k mark and get abused like a hire car up to that point. I'm sure most people treat their own car with a degree of sympathy and tend to keep it for longer than 10k. Maybe i'm just missing the point. |
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| Turbonutter |
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| Turbonutter |
R53 Cooper S - owned from new 17K miles - just replaced the rear Dunlop 195/55/16s and we were onto the third set of fronts about 1k miles ago ( i.e. we've bought 2 sets of fronts and 1 set of rears since having it ) All worn evenly, wife's car ..... I suspect the Dunlop RFTs are to the Mini as the Bridgestones RFTs are to the 3-series....either that or my wife is taking racetrack tuition in the day 
I've only done about a thousand miles in it i'd say from new |
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| PG |
How much is that in tyres in 11k miles? They must be at least £250 each? Ye gods. I'm pissed off that the fronts on the Jag only do about 10k before the outside shoulders start to wear really quickly. |
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| Turbonutter |
Says £1314 in today's Autocar |
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| Twelfth Monkey |
In what, six months?
I get a year's wear out of a full set, which is about £900. |
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| cbeaks1 |
How much of the year do you spend on track/driving it like you stole it though?
I don't doubt it eats tyres, but few are going to do as badly as these, and I imagine 11500 miles in a few months is pretty unusual for an RS too. |
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| Turbonutter |
I'd be interested to know what the R26R ekes out of its 888s in daily driving. They last less time than normal road tyres in my experience - they start off with much less tread depth for a start |
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| Pkh72 |
IIRC when Autocar received their RS it had already done about 3k miles. Or was that another mag? 
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| TimR |
If the extreme tyre wear is down to the car being on track so much it's hardly a fair test is it?
I don't recall any of their previous long-termers being subjected to such abuse (if that's the cause). I think EVO got about 6 or 7k from their Toyo equipped R26R. |