The Motor Forum

Roadsterstu · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:48 pm Post subject: What should I do? IT'S DONE!

OK, so the avatar shows I'm having silly thoughts about ZT260s again. I don't know what it is, but there is a massive appeal to me about these things. I think it is the fact that despite being about to disappear into oblivion, MG-Rover developed something so utterly mad, in a sort of "cobbled together in a shed" kind of way. It's under-developed nature is all part of the appeal. Along with that clunking, under-powered Mustang V8. But it just seems to work.

Basically, I'm hacked off with the Fiat. It's a good car, let down by issues that were simply not sorted out in anyway properly by the dealer. As the only new car I have ever bought, all that new car excitement was wiped out right from the off. Every little noise now has me feeling that something else is about to go wrong, or that a visit to a dealer will result in even mroe problems than before the car went in. I have lost all confidence in the product.

I no longer need the Fiat for a driving school car - a new job last year and a new baby this year have conspired to rob me of the time needed to pass the 3 parts of the test within the required 2 years. As such, I no longer have PDI status and need to re-take the first 2 tests all over again. So, the requirement for the car has been negated. Sadly of course, I've lost a packet on it. It is now worth 7k or so in a private sale.

What do I do? Scratch this itch now, whilst there may be an opportunity to do so? Sell the Fiat whilst it's still worth 7k and has warranty, whereas next year it'll be 5, then 3, then 2? Get something a little more exciting, much quicker, yet equally practical?

My thoughts so far have ranged from the ZT, through to a firm Forum favourite, the 156 GTA, to something like an S6 or a 5 series. I've considered Legacy turbos, Scoobys, all the usual stuff. But ultimately I think I want something that has some excitement and character. Something that could go wrong occasionally, but could be forgiven as the car would put a smile on my face every time it is driven...

At the moment it's tie between the ZT and GTA. The budget is 7k max, or whatever the Fiat would go for. I'll spend less quite happily (aeasy with a ZT, not so with a GTA).

What do you think? Crazy thoughts? Idle dreaming? Or a realistic route to something quite stonkingly good fun?

Matt · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:52 pm Post subject:

I saw Fifth Gear the other day and it was the test around Anglesey between this and the Monaro.

I'd reckon them to be a good laugh and the under-stressed nature is a few parts away from 400bhp madness, surely?
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SpecB · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:56 pm Post subject:

Good to have you back. If the Fiat is driving you mad and you are not going to use it for what you bought it for then why not change. Personally I would choose a Leggy for purely biased reasons (interestingly I did a Parkers valuation of mine today and it came in at £12.5k!) but I have always liked the 75.

I am sure you will be able to find one that doesn't actually result in a net loss in terms of purchase cost less sale of the Fiat.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject:

Shame you didn't get the GTA bug a bit earlier, you could have had one of the best maintained examples out there.

As to the MG, I can't help thinking a contemporary Jaguar would be better in every way, if you want that trad British V8 saloon thing.

And given you'd be buying a car from a firm that no longer exists, you need to do your research - owners' forums, test drives ...

Roadsterstu · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:25 pm Post subject:

Yes, a certain GTA which had travelled to colder climes did spring to mind (assume you meant that one).

I did wonder about the S-Type R but they seem to be a bit leggy at under 7k. Supercharged and V8. Splendid!

German saloons are all well and good but I feel will lack something on an emotional level.

I looked at Legacy prices - hold up well, don't they? I spotted an about-to-be-imported previous gen Legacy estate, in white. The loopy JDM twin turbo. Would have been about 4k, ready to go. The twin turbo is perhaps a bit crackers, but again would maybe lack that certain something.

As for research - I've read up on MG/V8/ZT/X-Power foums of several known,but generally easily sorted issues. An ex club car would be ideal as should have had it all done. Still reading though.

As for fuel use - my commute is only 3 miles each way. I can actually bike it but have been a bit lazy and have only done so once. But I could save fuel, get much fitter and slimmer and put the car on a limited mileage policy. As it is I'll do about 7k maximum this next year, all being well.

Roadsterstu · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject:

And was sorry to read about the scum-damaged GT3, Nick. Hopefully all sorted with minimal fuss.

SpecB · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:31 pm Post subject:

Dr. Hfuhruhurr · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject:

Roadsterstu · Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject:

Ah, yes, of course! But Racing's was rather nice too.

I think the Legacy in question was the sequential - did a google on it. Probably quite a hoot to drive, indeed.

SpecB · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:02 am Post subject:

The sequentials are mental. Well up for 160 mph plus (once the nannying JDM limiter is removed) but can give grief!

You need to check out www.uklegacy.com
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Mark

PG · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:27 am Post subject:

If you want to do the ZT260 go for it. Itches sometimes just have to be scratched. If you don't do it, you'll regret it.

It does make me wonder about R&D costs sometimes when you can compare MG/Rover who managed to convert a FWD 75 into a RWD chassis, stick a V8 in, get it tested etc for about £5.60 in development costs, v's the almost billions spent to develop some mainstream models.

As James May is always saying, some of the best work is really done by men in sheds.

Matt · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:00 am Post subject:

Asking the question 'what should I do' in relation to petrolheads about a V8 might be a wallet-emptying response!
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Roadrunner · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject:

Just found this thread. No surprises for my big vote for the ZT. You mentioned the forums. I expect you have seen these:

http://forums.mg-rover.org/forumdisplay.php?f=90

http://forums.mg-rover.org/forumdisplay.php?f=163

http://www.mgcc.co.uk/registers-t...register-topmenu-98/contacts.html

Knowing how good they are with a four cylinder diesel up front, the V8 must be awesome. Do it!
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Martin · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject:

If that's what you fancy then you should go for it, you only live once!!

What other interesting V6/V8 stuff can you get for around that price?

The main thing that would put me off the ZT260 is the very thing that enabled it to get made, the 'shed' development!

Little details bug me far more than is normal. One of my pet hates is cars with misaligned exhausts (step forward Jag XF!) and uneven panel gaps.

I had a quick look on the forum and it didn't take long, I just had to post these

I hardly need to point it out, but I'm looking at the nearside pipes, as they are worse than the offside ones. It might well be an aftermarket system, but I did check some other pictures to make sure they were all the same.

Someone just hacked away at the bodywork and then randomly riveted some trim on!

I won't show you some of the panel gaps!!

Having said all that, I always liked the ZT and it's still a nice looking car imo. This one looks great as long as you don't look closely as the details. I'm sure it would be nicer in blue though.....

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gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:07 pm Post subject:

It'll be more reliable than the Fiat!

Personally I go 540i for that extra reliability or 330i and save some petrol costs but nice cars and just go for it - I'd buy the cheapest/best condition one you can find to minimise depreciation though.
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Roadrunner · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject:

gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject:

Matt · Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:00 am Post subject:

The diesel has the benefit of being an under-stressed BMW design, not some relatively ancient Ford pig iron, though.
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Guitar Zero · Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:17 am Post subject:

I don't see the attraction, the engine manages to be both weak and frighteningly thirsty.

Autocar stats are 100 mph in 17.1 seconds, an average of 16.8 mpg and touring consumption of 20.4 mpg (yes, only 20 mpg even when you drive like a fanny with a sore foot).

That's not a good enough trade between performance and economy. It also appears to be rather diesely in it's delivery - no real top end, you just use the torque.
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Roadsterstu · Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject:

I assume as it's an American V8, that's why it's somewhat lazy in its nature. the forums talk of occasional high 20's on a run. i think maybe you are taking the engine in isolation, rather than the whole package. in which case yes, it's a bit of clunker. but as a package it's something altogether different.

Frank Bullitt · Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject:

They have all the appeal of a hang-over without the mega piss-up the night before. Like Peet, I don't see their USP other than it being a V8, but it's a turd of a V8. Always thought the ZT was a nice enough motor though so I'd be much more tempted by the 190 bhp 2.5 V6 which combined with the decent chassis and solid base car makes a tempting choice.
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DaveGibson · Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:41 pm Post subject:

Turbonutter · Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject:

I see one at the Breakfast Club occasionally. Can't say I dislike them but I'd probably go for a Holden GTS or similar if I was after a big V8 saloon

Martin · Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:59 pm Post subject:

Other options, based on decent size engine, less than £7k and less than 5 years old so comparable to the ZT:

Mondeo ST220
X Type 3.0
S Type 3.0
Legacy Spec B

Not a lot of other interesting options (imo) unless you go older.
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Guitar Zero · Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:50 pm Post subject:

Gurney · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:59 am Post subject:

Always liked the sound of these but as Peet says 17.1 0 to 100 and 16.8mpg is dire though presumably the performance is easily boosted?

Obviously biased but I would much rather have a GTA - any 1 of the 3. Get a good specialist and hopefully it will be as boringly reliable as mine. There is a very low mileage example at Autolusso at the moment which is causing all sorts of excitement btw.

Mind you rumours of 120p a litre not too clever re this kind of car.
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scamper · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:54 am Post subject:

A car which will be exciting but may go wrong occasionally (character)?

What about a car which is exciting and relaible?

Gurney · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:18 pm Post subject:

When my Mini One broke down for the second time (gear selector ball joint flapping in the wind) it managed to do it in the Duddon Valley up in the lakes.

Zero mobile covereage. Trudged up a hill to a lonely farmhouse and found a very friendly couple from Dorset in residence (it was there holiday home) with eleventy one kids and a Toyota Landcrusher.

They allowed me to phone BMW recovery and as I was doing so I noticed a pic of a Ferrari Daytona.

Turned out it used to be there own car (pre sprogs) broke down daily on trips all over the continent.

The chap stared at it wistfully and actually said to me 'Nothing exciting is ever reliable'.

I was quite willing to thrash the Mini to death with a tree, Cleese style but on reflection all my dreadfully 'unreliable' 'characterful' cars (irony intended) have been exciting - Mini included, so maybe he was right.

Despite being a Southerner....
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But refrains from doing so.

scamper · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject:

Eff One · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject:

All four forum GTAs were pretty mint, I think - I can certainly vouch for mine and ALF's.

You know you want to: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1183591.htm
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Gurney · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject:

Gurney · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject:

"him" · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject:

He used the word "sweet" and refers to himself as "Jez" though...
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Gurney · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject:

Roadsterstu · Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:33 pm Post subject:

DradusContact · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:12 am Post subject:

Have you had any more thoughts on this?

My suggestions: ZT-Tourer. Do it. Still a cracking looking car. If you dont want an S type whats wrong with the X type? Mondeo jokes aside, whats wrong with it? 4wd one should be a good ride too.

At the other end of the spectrum how about an MX5? Are you really willing to accept all the issues what getting an older car brings though?
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Roadsterstu · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject:

The one and only thing stopping me getting another '5 is the lack of rear seats. I need some practicality as well now. Hatch, saloon or estate but sadly not 2 seat roadster.

The ZT-T260 would be an option but the V8s are pretty hard to find - apparently there were only about 75 made.

I'm still leaning towards the 260 saloon, though I'm certainly not going to discount the GTA just yet. Need to drive both yet. Might go and find some for a test drive soon.

Still researching the 260 - there is a lot to research!

Racing · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject:

I've always liked the ZT 260. Irrational it may be but there you go. I understand wanting one.

But I suggest you drive one before doing any more research. That will tell you whether you like it, regardless of whether others think it is good, bad or ugly.
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Blarno · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject:

I can't help but think that a 540i or C43 will be a better choice.

Then again, I'm selling a perfectly good hot hatch to buy a 12 year old Escort and spend the rest on making a rattly French tin box go much faster than it's supposed to, so my opinion is probably not valid....
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Roadsterstu · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject:

Roadsterstu · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject:

DradusContact · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqZZfXdm7D0&feature=related

I. Want. One.
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gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:09 pm Post subject:

Just go the whole hog and get an early Mustang or Camaro - the depreciation will be lower

The V8 Stag has also a similar burbling exhaust note.
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Roadrunner · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject:

Blarno · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject:

I think anything with more than 6 cylinders and a bit of poke is going to be expensive if it goes wrong!
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gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:41 pm Post subject:

Roadsterstu · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:34 am Post subject:

I can well imagine the GTA is going to be pricey for anything major. The 260 ought to be less so, however. The Mustang lump is relatively unstressed and is a basic, old engine. However, I still have to research this...!

Guitar Zero · Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:51 am Post subject:

Obviously, the Ford V8s are supported by a huge tuning scene in America so hop up bits won't be that expensive.

Also, a few things to consider :

The mustang uses that 4.6 V8 and it's official output is 300 bhp. Further more, I'm 99% certain that when EVO had one as a long termer, they had it remapped to a far more interesting 370 bhp. See link

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/e...tests/205020/ford_mustang_gt.html

So - what exactly is the difference between the stang 4.6 and the MG 4.6 ?. Basically, you could find a way to an easy 300 bhp plus.
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2002 Focus 2.0 zetec
1999 Fiat Punto

Roadsterstu · Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:01 am Post subject:

Hmmmm, supercharger......

Well, perhaps not. But a remap may be worth investigating, given EVO's big gains.

I read the Autocar review - didn't think it was that bad, TBH.

Gooner · Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:42 am Post subject:

I've really liked the ZT and 75 from the day they first came out and a 260 would be an amazing car to own so why not? My only issue would be knowing what to do if something goes wrong. Is there really the expertise left to deal with it? I'm sure there probably is but worth checking first.

It's perhaps not AS interesting but a recent check shows you only need 4 grand to bag a Passat W8. Surely the ultimate of modern Q cars and probably even more likely to be a real collectors item one day. Don't get me wrong the ZT would still be first choice but you'll not find a cheaper way to an 8 cylinder VW.
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