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Time for another referendum ...
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Michael
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Time for another referendum ...  Reply with quote

Good luck Scotland.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bon Voyage
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to be against the idea of Scottish independence. I'm not any more. I'd rather they stayed but I can understand why they wouldn't want to.

I was particularly astounded by Michael Gove's complete lack of a sense of irony on TV last week when he lambasted the SNP for being obsessed with just one single issue at the expense of all else, namely leaving the United Kingdom, and for which they would distort and twist all possible facts and figures to suit their pursuit of that single issue. Hard to think of a more perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've no time for the SNP. UKIP lite.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Scots genuinely want to leave, fine and good for them.  The problem for me comes when the shortstop in a skirt talks about keeping the pound and linking to the Bank of England, in other words she wants to have our fiscal policies support her social policies.

Is there is an overwhelming desire and vote for Scotland to become independent, have at it but, BE independent rather than a sham.

Scotland created the union and now a number of Scots want to shaft the rest of us again over what is suggested as the English taking North Sea oil from the Scots.

I believe the minority of Scots are pouring oil on a fire.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
I've no time for the SNP. UKIP lite.


Me neither, for the avoidance of doubt. But, after how appallingly the Tory party has behaved (which errs towards UKIP-max frankly), I'm not sure I can get as upset about the SNP as I used to.

And whilst, I'm not sure it makes any more sense for the Scottish to leave the UK than it does for the UK to leave the EU, since we are all due to jump off a cliff because it is the "Will of The People", I don't blame the Scottish electorate if they want to say "thanks but nae thanks".

Is anyone else enjoying Tracey Ullman's spot-on skits on Sturgeon? I find the show a bit hit and miss, humour-wise, but the ones featuring Sturgeon in her underground lair under Castle Rock with her henchwoman "wee Mhairi Black" are very sharp, as are the ones with her and Merkel.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
I've no time for the SNP. UKIP lite.


Me neither, for the avoidance of doubt. But, after how appallingly the Tory party has behaved (which errs towards UKIP-max frankly), I'm not sure I can get as upset about the SNP as I used to.

And whilst, I'm not sure it makes any more sense for the Scottish to leave the UK than it does for the UK to leave the EU, since we are all due to jump off a cliff because it is the "Will of The People", I don't blame the Scottish electorate if they want to say "thanks but nae thanks".



I agree but then I don't blame those that voted Leave who looked at the EU and said "thanks but no thanks".

Democracy, who'd have it eh?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the SNP really believe now would be a good time to leave the rest of the UK.
I assume it's some sabre rattling to remind the Tory overlords that there are other organisations in the UK that would like to have a bit of input into the Brexit thing.

However, if it's serious then it's a valid thing to do - they're representing the will of the people they represent. The vote to stay in the EU from the Scottish area was a lot more decisive than the vote to leave from the country as a whole.

They're there to represent the voices of their constituents.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

38% of Scots voted to leave the EU. The SNP says they are irrelevant minority.

44% of Scots voted to leave the UK. The SNP say they are an important voice that must be heard.

What a massive difference 6% makes.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
38% of Scots voted to leave the EU. The SNP says they are irrelevant minority.

44% of Scots voted to leave the UK. The SNP say they are an important voice that must be heard.

What a massive difference 6% makes.


48% of the UK voted to stay in the EU and they're dismissed as being unrepresentative of 'The Will of the People'  
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know how the majority of people I know are thinking: we have already had a vote on independence and that was no, so go away and start running the country instead of wasting so much publicly funded time and effort on your own crusade.

I also have friends who are so pro independence that they are blind to everything else.

I could go on for hours but there are some basic facts that have to be faced: oil is in decline and will never be the financial saviour. Scotland does most of its trade with England so how does that pan out if there are trade tariffs and barriers. How quickly and at what cost would Scotland be able to join the EC? There will need top be a "hard border" between Scotland and England, not least for immigration purposes. Scotland will potentially have the Euro (if the Eurozone still exists) and WILL be dictated to by Brussels. There is insufficient wealth within Scotland alone to fund all the services which are being promised. Standard Life said previously that they will leave Scotland if it becomes independent and now that it has effectively swallowed up Aberdeen Asset Management, that is one hell of a lot of highly paid jobs which will disappear. Labour's "increase tax on the wealthy" policy in the 60's and 70's just led all those of significant wealth leaving the country and for most remaining people not being able to afford to spend money to keep the wheels of the economy turning. The SNP (devoid of any memory of such things) believe that this kind of policy could/should be applied in Scotland.

I thought and hoped we had seen the last of the independence debate for a while. I will sell my business and take the online part south with me if independence occurs - it will break my heart to do so but for the sake of my family, I would rather be on the deck of the slightly damaged large ship than take to a lifeboat with one broken oar in a stormy ocean with a skipper who's only words of comfort are that it can't be any worse than where we came from. Such words can only come from someone who has little experience of being at sea and no idea of how bad it might get!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:


I also have friends who are so pro independence that they are blind to everything else.


Down here they call it "The Will of The People"....
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the first referendum to leave the EU, those in favour of remaining shouted down every complaint with "quit crying, it's done, get over it".  Having lost the last referendum, remainers all over are crying out for another.  Goose and Gander come to mind.  The Scots voted to remain and while the nationalist do have a right to have their voice heard, it is difficult to see how any repeat will be good for Scotland let alone anyone else.

It strikes me that the SNP have few policies and are hoping to get their policies funded by the rest of the UK, what are they going to do if they get independence, and fail to keep Sterling and the BOE etc?  What are they going to do when the EU informs them they have to request membership?  How will Scotland qualify for membership if they do not have Sterling and the BOE tied to whatever currency they get?

The twerp in a skirt is going to ruin Scotland and while I do not wish this, I am NOT in favour of Scottish policies being allowed to sink the rest of us.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
I've no time for the SNP. UKIP lite.


Me neither, for the avoidance of doubt. But, after how appallingly the Tory party has behaved (which errs towards UKIP-max frankly), I'm not sure I can get as upset about the SNP as I used to.

And whilst, I'm not sure it makes any more sense for the Scottish to leave the UK than it does for the UK to leave the EU, since we are all due to jump off a cliff because it is the "Will of The People", I don't blame the Scottish electorate if they want to say "thanks but nae thanks".



I agree but then I don't blame those that voted Leave who looked at the EU and said "thanks but no thanks".

Democracy, who'd have it eh?


Particularly when it's led astray by flagrant lies and enough snake-oil to drown in. Lies which go down particularly well when they pander to people's pre-established prejudices. Prejudices which the media had spent years, egged on successive governments who needed a convenient scapegoat, establishing in the mind of the average Brit which held that the EU was nothing more than a waste of space, the source of all bad law, a potent drain on national resources and above all just not British. That's why the 350m on the bus lie was so effective - it played to what people thought anyway, regardless of whether any of it was true.

And yet we like to laugh at Donald Trump and his accusations of "fake news", and at Putin and the brainwashed Russian electorate, and at the Erdogans and other petty and not so petty dictators and would-be dictators around the world who twist and distort democracy to their ends.

Failing of course to spot it happening to us in our country right under our noses.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure what Sturgeon is hoping to achieve, apart from trying to cause pain to the hated English and prize even more money from the UK government to prop up her socialist dream in Scotland.  

Because let's look at the alternatives. The vote goes against independence - what does she do then? The vote goes in favour, then does she really think that the EU will say, "it's Ok, Scotland can stay in the EU when RUK leaves". Because several other EU countries that have independence movements in regions - Spain being the biggest example - have all along said that they'd veto that.

And then there is the matter of currency, central bank, fiscal budget and trade. I'm not quite sure that staying the EU is such a big deal for Scotland as she thinks it is. After all, if the EU does not give the UK a trade deal, then Scotland having to trade with RUK on WTO terms will be way worse for Scotland that for RUK. According to Wikipedia -  

The economy of Scotland is the 43rd largest in the worl with an estimated nominal gross domestic product (GDP) of up to 152 billion in 2015. As of 2016, Scotland, if it were a separate country, would be the twelfth-largest economy in the 28-member European Union (EU)........ ...Scotland still conducts the vast majority of its trade within the UK. In 2014, Scotland's exports totalled 76 billion, of which 48.5 billion (64%) was with constituent nations of the United Kingdom, 11.6 billion with the rest of the EU, and 15.2 billion with other parts of the world. So the EU is Scotland's third trading partner.  

Surely she is not that stupid?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PG wrote:

Surely she is not that stupid?


I doubt it.

It's not going to happen anyway so relax and worry about how the NHS are going to spend that extra 350M per week they're going to get in 2 years time  
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just amazed by Darth May's blithe and blatant hypocrisy. If Sturgeon succeeds in giving her grief, then good on her. i really really want to see the Tory party suffer every wound possible.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It had to come eventually with Sturgeon in charge, it's what her party stands for. She's just found an opportunity the day before we trigger article 50 to try and chuck a spanner in the works. Regardless of Brexit, I think the Scots would be mad to leave, especially if they think it means they get to stay in the EU. For one thing they'll never get their acceptance vote past the Spannish because it'll be Catalonia next if they do!

A colleague commented earlier that he thought it was a bit of an overreaction to the Six Nations result!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PG wrote:
The economy of Scotland is the 43rd largest in the worl with an estimated nominal gross domestic product (GDP) of up to 152 billion in 2015. As of 2016, Scotland, if it were a separate country, would be the twelfth-largest economy in the 28-member European Union (EU)........ ...Scotland still conducts the vast majority of its trade within the UK. In 2014, Scotland's exports totalled 76 billion, of which 48.5 billion (64%) was with constituent nations of the United Kingdom, 11.6 billion with the rest of the EU, and 15.2 billion with other parts of the world. So the EU is Scotland's third trading partner.



I don't know if you saw Alex Salmond on the news this morning but he was saying that England and the rest of the current UK would be daft to put tariffs on trade with Scotland because it would just be an act of self harm - is that not exactly what they are saying won't/can't happen with Europe. However is Scotland were to manage to join the EU, such deals would be controlled by Brussels, not Edinburgh.

I know we are no longer an Empire as such but do you think the Roman Empire collapsed in a similarly short period due to a series of own goals and shooting oneself in the foot. We, as current members of the UK could all be living in an economic and political backwater in 15 or 20 years time. We could easily become a complete irrelevance in the world in record time.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:
A colleague commented earlier that he thought it was a bit of an overreaction to the Six Nations result!


There was something going round Facebook yesterday stating that the SNP want the game replayed because a minority of the viewers didn't like the result!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:

I know we are no longer an Empire as such but do you think the Roman Empire collapsed in a similarly short period due to a series of own goals and shooting oneself in the foot. We, as current members of the UK could all be living in an economic and political backwater in 15 or 20 years time. We could easily become a complete irrelevance in the world in record time.


I don't know about the Romans, but I have much the same fear as you on the irrelevance point.

In a way I don't mind that much. Other countries are secure and prosperous despite being largely irrelevant geopolitically. But what irks is the much-promulgated fantasy that in fact the reverse will happen and we will become the Mouse that Roared.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:
JohnC wrote:

I know we are no longer an Empire as such but do you think the Roman Empire collapsed in a similarly short period due to a series of own goals and shooting oneself in the foot. We, as current members of the UK could all be living in an economic and political backwater in 15 or 20 years time. We could easily become a complete irrelevance in the world in record time.


I don't know about the Romans, but I have much the same fear as you on the irrelevance point.

In a way I don't mind that much. Other countries are secure and prosperous despite being largely irrelevant geopolitically. But what irks is the much-promulgated fantasy that in fact the reverse will happen and we will become the Mouse that Roared.


Er.. you might want to re-think that analogy; the Duchy of Grand Fenwick got everything it wanted and became the most powerful country in the world.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
JohnC wrote:

I know we are no longer an Empire as such but do you think the Roman Empire collapsed in a similarly short period due to a series of own goals and shooting oneself in the foot. We, as current members of the UK could all be living in an economic and political backwater in 15 or 20 years time. We could easily become a complete irrelevance in the world in record time.


I don't know about the Romans, but I have much the same fear as you on the irrelevance point.

In a way I don't mind that much. Other countries are secure and prosperous despite being largely irrelevant geopolitically. But what irks is the much-promulgated fantasy that in fact the reverse will happen and we will become the Mouse that Roared.


Er.. you might want to re-think that analogy; the Duchy of Grand Fenwick got everything it wanted and became the most powerful country in the world.



Isn't that his point?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:
JohnC wrote:

I know we are no longer an Empire as such but do you think the Roman Empire collapsed in a similarly short period due to a series of own goals and shooting oneself in the foot. We, as current members of the UK could all be living in an economic and political backwater in 15 or 20 years time. We could easily become a complete irrelevance in the world in record time.


I don't know about the Romans, but I have much the same fear as you on the irrelevance point.

In a way I don't mind that much. Other countries are secure and prosperous despite being largely irrelevant geopolitically. But what irks is the much-promulgated fantasy that in fact the reverse will happen and we will become the Mouse that Roared.


Er.. you might want to re-think that analogy; the Duchy of Grand Fenwick got everything it wanted and became the most powerful country in the world.



Isn't that his point?


It is indeed. And a noble one too.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so why re-think it?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
so why re-think it?


I read it on my phone, ironically on my way to the optician.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
PhilD wrote:
so why re-think it?


I read it on my phone, ironically on my way to the optician.


 

I could see Peter Sellars playing a hapless British Brexit negotiator...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
PhilD wrote:
so why re-think it?


I read it on my phone, ironically on my way to the optician.


*Waits patiently in Greggs for eye test*
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boc70 wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
PhilD wrote:
so why re-think it?


I read it on my phone, ironically on my way to the optician.


*Waits patiently in Greggs for eye test*


You'll never believe this but there is a Greggs next door to the Optician on Kingston Park where I go.

Have you seen how much they want for a steak bake these days?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 4 Greggs in Dundee city centre  
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
boc70 wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
PhilD wrote:
so why re-think it?


I read it on my phone, ironically on my way to the optician.


*Waits patiently in Greggs for eye test*


You'll never believe this but there is a Greggs next door to the Optician on Kingston Park where I go.

Have you seen how much they want for a steak bake these days?


EXYJKZFLD?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing Teatray wrote:


EXYJKZFLD?


Low blow Racing...low blow...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:


EXYJKZFLD?


Low blow Racing...low blow...


But don't you find that when you go the optician that they show you the same letter a few times and you know what it says - as you memorised it - but you know that you can't really "see" them. What do you do? Act stupid and get decent glasses or act intelligent and be blind?  
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I may have just suffered one of the first casualties of this independence question. If have a very good lady who works for me who is English. Her husband is also English and works in a higher education establishment (as head of department).

She asked for a few words this morning and said that she could not go through all the hatred and vitriol which a lot of No supporters suffered during the last referendum and they had decided last night that her husband was going to start to apply for jobs in higher education establishments in England. She was just giving me lots of notice that they will be moving. She is extremely sad but can't face it again.

I'm pissed off.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
Well, I may have just suffered one of the first casualties of this independence question. If have a very good lady who works for me who is English. Her husband is also English and works in a higher education establishment (as head of department).

She asked for a few words this morning and said that she could not go through all the hatred and vitriol which a lot of No supporters suffered during the last referendum and they had decided last night that her husband was going to start to apply for jobs in higher education establishments in England. She was just giving me lots of notice that they will be moving. She is extremely sad but can't face it again.

I'm pissed off.


That's a real shame.
Is it a west coast problem though or have I just been lucky - I never saw/heard any vitriol (apart from on the TV) either way last time round?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Well, I may have just suffered one of the first casualties of this independence question. If have a very good lady who works for me who is English. Her husband is also English and works in a higher education establishment (as head of department).

She asked for a few words this morning and said that she could not go through all the hatred and vitriol which a lot of No supporters suffered during the last referendum and they had decided last night that her husband was going to start to apply for jobs in higher education establishments in England. She was just giving me lots of notice that they will be moving. She is extremely sad but can't face it again.

I'm pissed off.




That's a real shame.
Is it a west coast problem though or have I just been lucky - I never saw/heard any vitriol (apart from on the TV) either way last time round?


I don't remember Rebecca commenting on hearing very much of that, and she's right in the hub of things in Edinburgh! Through here, though, it was akin to political Old Firm stuff; very unpleasant and divisive all round.

Sadly, as John has alluded to, it's already started up again, though from my own observations the nastiness comes from both sides in fairly equal measure. I suspect my FB 'friends' list may be severely depleted come 2019!
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PG wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:


EXYJKZFLD?


Low blow Racing...low blow...


But don't you find that when you go the optician that they show you the same letter a few times and you know what it says - as you memorised it - but you know that you can't really "see" them. What do you do? Act stupid and get decent glasses or act intelligent and be blind?


you could just tell them?    

I will confess that it took me about 2 years at my current optician to realise the chart wasn't actually on the wall in front of me but was in fact behind me and I was looking at a mirror.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
PG wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Racing Teatray wrote:


EXYJKZFLD?


Low blow Racing...low blow...


But don't you find that when you go the optician that they show you the same letter a few times and you know what it says - as you memorised it - but you know that you can't really "see" them. What do you do? Act stupid and get decent glasses or act intelligent and be blind?


you could just tell them?

I will confess that it took me about 2 years at my current optician to realise the chart wasn't actually on the wall in front of me but was in fact behind me and I was looking at a mirror.


And the fact they change it with a press of a button every time they test a different eye!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
JohnC wrote:
Well, I may have just suffered one of the first casualties of this independence question. If have a very good lady who works for me who is English. Her husband is also English and works in a higher education establishment (as head of department).

She asked for a few words this morning and said that she could not go through all the hatred and vitriol which a lot of No supporters suffered during the last referendum and they had decided last night that her husband was going to start to apply for jobs in higher education establishments in England. She was just giving me lots of notice that they will be moving. She is extremely sad but can't face it again.

I'm pissed off.


That's a real shame.
Is it a west coast problem though or have I just been lucky - I never saw/heard any vitriol (apart from on the TV) either way last time round?


I even got some real pent up anger directed at me last time by my brother in law. He is an ardent independence fan and he was almost frothing at the mouth at the thought that I wasn't patriotic enough to vote Yes. He couldn't hear my point that it had nothing to do with being patriotic. All he could hear in his head was Flower of Scotland and a shout of FREEDOM.

To him, the economic arguments are just scaremongering and he won't listen to any reason I believe they are not.

As Ian has said it is very like the Old Firm hatred - there is no reasoning, no thought and in my opinion little intelligence applied by many to the argument.

You could argue I am just as bad but I don't use violence, I don't post on Facebook despite the poisoned posts some "friends" post and I believe my decision on which side of the fence to sit is based purely on logical analysis of the threats and benefits to me, my family, my business and Scotland as a whole. I also quite like being British.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I visited my Mum last night and she surprised me by how angry she was at the prospect of another referendum.
I have noticed recently she's been getting quite bad tempered by Nicola Sturgeon and going on a bit about how all 'that woman' ever talks about is another referendum.
I know my Mum finally stopped reading the Daily Express a couple of years ago but I'm not sure now why it's become such an issue to her.
After all she told me before she voted for independence in 1978 or 79 - only a couple of years after we moved up here.

Weirdly she has become a massive supporter of Ruth Davidson (possibly because one of her cronies plays golf with said bulldog's mother) but she shut up when I pointed out that RD has a big mouth but hasn't been in power so hasn't had the chance to prove how brilliant or otherwise she really is.

I'm really not looking forward to another referendum, mainly because of the overwhelming unsubstantiated bullshit propaganda that we'll get from both sides for a depressingly long period.

I also remember a lot of comments in the media and on here from last time round from people 'Dahn Sarth' boldly stating that it was an anti-English vote when in my opinion and experience it was nothing of the sort.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tell you what; it's a nightmare at the moment living here with the Scots to the North and the English to the South. Some heads need banging together.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:

I'm really not looking forward to another referendum, mainly because of the overwhelming unsubstantiated bullshit propaganda that we'll get from both sides for a depressingly long period.

I also remember a lot of comments in the media and on here from last time round from people 'Dahn Sarth' boldly stating that it was an anti-English vote when in my opinion and experience it was nothing of the sort.


I think there was definitely an element of anti-English guff spouted last time, as there no doubt will be this time too. Sadly, that's the way some people think. It's probably fairer to say that many more people are anti-Westminster, and not just in Scotland either!

I'm another who is not looking forward to the next however many months of this drivel; problem is, how do you get away from it and still keep at least some-way informed about everything else in the world? (Mind you, most of that's pretty bloody depressing too!)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxer6 wrote:
It's probably fairer to say that many more people are anti-Westminster, and not just in Scotland either!


I think that has been the sentiment in the last 2 referendums and similar in the US with Trump being elected.
Sadly I don't think Westminster has listened apart from them picking up the phrase 'Westminster Bubble' about which they do absolutely nothing.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicola Fish is doing the same thing ALL politicians do, play up to their core supporters.  In other words she is doing what she thinks she has to do to keep her position of power and influence.  Still a muppet though.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that unless there is a massive derailment of SNP popularity, the UK has probably had it now. It will cost us all in the pocket, and ultimately the biggest losers will be Scotland (and NI at this rate). I'm pretty sure I know (in terms of nationality) who will get the blame for this too, in the long run.

I'm struggling with the concept of being over-represented in a culturally homogeneous UK as having less "freedom" than being a tiny country in the EU, but there you go. There is no logic to it.

The economic cost of sorting our Brexit, Scoxit, "hard" borders for Scotland and NI, and so on will be massive. The pound and the UK economy have bounced back a bit since the Brexit vote but I can't see that lasting through years and years of negative headlines. I thinik the Daily Mash has it about right when it says that the EU has a Brexit plan for us, and its called "Fuck off".

The "intelligence" of the debate was best summed up for me when I was reading some comments below a BBC news page about Scottish independence, and a woman was commenting on how "small" countries do within the EU. She referenced Iceland and Italy as examples. Iceland is not even in the EU, and Italy has a population around the same as the UK's (and around 185 times that of Iceland). I rest my case - these are the voters, and they will speak. And fuck up their livelihoods. And then moan about that.
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Racing Teatray
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's considered very bad form to suggest that some voters are ignorant but actually they are.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alf McQueef wrote:
I rest my case - these are the voters, and they will speak. And fuck up their livelihoods. And then moan about that.


Yup.
Brexit will show that in the first instance I think, Scoxit (you're going to have to try harder with that   ) will follow.
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is the possibility of a snap General election being called next week at the same time as Article 50 is triggered.

From a Scottish perspective, the number of SNP MPs returned to Westminster will be a telling statistic. If they manage to retain their 98% of Scottish MPs (despite 49% of the vote) then I think Indy2 is a definite. However if they take a bit of a beating, then some of the wind will be taken out their sails and the PM is much more likely to refuse any second Indy Referendum until after the next Scottish Parliamentary elections at which Indy2 will be the sole topic of discussion.

For personal reasons I hope it is shoved down the road many years because I have a lot of planning to do.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
There is the possibility of a snap General election being called next week at the same time as Article 50 is triggered.


It's a possibility. But perhaps a slim one.

I think it suits May having a slim majority and a feeble but not crushed opposition. It gives her plausible deniability and scapegoats with respect to a difficult juggling act she has with the ultrabrexit wing of her party.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How easy is it to emigrate to Canada?


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