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The new project
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: The new project  Reply with quote

Hopefully not to be another unfinished one. Myself and 2 guys from work are having a crack at building this thing into a working car:





Jim, our spannerer in chief, found this in a skip in North Wales. Needless to say it was rescued very quickly and has been brought back to civilisation. A bit of digging and chin scratching revealed it is an EB60 - originally made by a company in Keele as a body for the Ford Popular between 1959 and 1964. Only 2000 were made before the company was bought by ERF, so this puppy is rare.

Our plan is to clean it up, take moulds off it and then set about creating our own 1960s quasi race car - you know the thing - clean lines, no overriders, flip up fuel cap, aero screen, double bouble butresses, etc. This is why I need an MX5, it'd be perfect to drop on top of. Either that or an E36 cabrio, but I fear that would be too wide and the wheelbase will end up looking odd. Once we have the moulds, we can create copies or modifications - the idea being that we build this one to test the water and then see if we can offer them out as kits. We also intend to use the moulds to build one each for ourselves in the long run. Mine will definitely be T5 powered.
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TreVoR
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmm. Cobra rep. Don't rule out anything RWD. It would probably fit on Granada, Capri or an old XJ6.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's got Capri underpinnings written all over it as that would match the original Popular base. MX-5 would be more reliable.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TreVoR wrote:
Mmm. Cobra rep. Don't rule out anything RWD. It would probably fit on Granada, Capri or an old XJ6.


It's too small for a Cobra rep. It's more Austin Healey shaped at the rear.

The MX5 is the logical choice as it's RWD, modern(ish), reliable and, crucially, designed and built as a roadster so we don't have to worry about additional strengthening of the monocoque. Same with an E36 cabrio. Chopping down a Sierra or Granada would be hell in terms of stopping the thing flopping like a drunk's cock.

I have an M reg Jap import MX5 on offer to me at £300, but I have to collect it from Bridgend. The idea is to remove the outer skin to see what we have to work with, but crucially have a turnkey solution that will work out of the box.
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TreVoR
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, ok. It's difficult to tell size from the photos.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It fitted on the roof of the blue Mondeo in the background!
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Roadsterstu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cracking project!  

Rather than go with a T5, stick with the MX-5 running gear and go forced induction - again, plenty of stuff available out of the box, ready made and reliable. Supercharged would be ideal. I assume the intention with the MX-5 would be to retain the "core" of the car for strength? Remember, too, the MX-5 has the PPF - the Power Plant Frame - as a kind of backbone, again making it ideal if the dimensions are right.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one (The first ones) won't be getting modded. We're doing this on a very tight budget so light = power in this case.

I've done a bit of research on MX5s via the web - there's plenty of pictures of the 2 subframes and the drive train separated out of the car.
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Giant
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic project! I hope you've told your colleagues unequivocally that this project will be known as the Blarnosport Donkernator Superlight!
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not yet, I'm working on that!
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Stuntman
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That has the potential to be fab.  Good luck!
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simonp
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Better change that album date to 2017!
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The garage is built, I can start the album now...
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gooner
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a great project. I'm sceptical about the T5 engine though. It's a great lump but will it work in a race car. I'd have thought a sc or na engine would be better, something like the 2.0 from an early RS Clio 172 or a Honda vtec if the budget stretches to it.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one is going to be standard underneath just to see how it goes. We may think about upgrading at some point if we feel we need more power. The T5 is the left field choice because:

A - It hasn't been done to an MX5 yet that I know of.
B - Plentiful.
C - Cheap.
D - Nigh on indestructible.
E - 225 bhp minimum.
F - Easy to convert into a RWD car.

I'd rather have a slug of torque than have to rag the bollocks off a 4 pot screamer.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear......you've spent too long in a diesel.  You need is car to get some balance!  

In an every day saloon/estate I'd agree with you, but a small and light convertible is very different.  The fun should come from using the full rev range than wafting along.
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Alf McQueef
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much does a T5 lump weigh?

I spent a lot of time on track in a screamy weedy little 1.6 K Caterham series with 120bhp, often alongside things like Westfield SEiGHT's and so on (a V8 Westie) - there seemed to be a general rule that the smaller and lighter the engine, the faster it went, the better it handled, and the less hassle it was.

Bike engined cars were the quickest - though buggers to keep reliable. My bike engined effort was not dissimilar in looks to your new body actually:



That was the car that told me I was far more into driving than spannering! It never worked well enough to race, in fact I have fond memories of only one day in the various attempts I had at tracking it.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Oh dear......you've spent too long in a diesel.  You need is car to get some balance!  

In an every day saloon/estate I'd agree with you, but a small and light convertible is very different.  The fun should come from using the full rev range than wafting along.


I agree. It looks a challenging project to fit a new front and back onto an MX5 but should it work I'd keep it light. One of the pleasures of the MX5 is zipping along using the gears as the drivetrain is a delight.
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PG
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a great project. But I'd endorse the "keep it simple" approach. I'd use pretty much everything from the MX-5 donor, including the engine, in this first one. Then you know the loom will work and everything will hopefully just slot into place. Then you can offer a kit much more easily if people know that an MX-5 will give them a lot of what they need.

Good luck!
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Roadsterstu
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Martin wrote:
Oh dear......you've spent too long in a diesel.  You need is car to get some balance!  

In an every day saloon/estate I'd agree with you, but a small and light convertible is very different.  The fun should come from using the full rev range than wafting along.


I agree. It looks a challenging project to fit a new front and back onto an MX5 but should it work I'd keep it light. One of the pleasures of the MX5 is zipping along using the gears as the drivetrain is a delight.


This.  I can't help thinking the T5 isn't ideal, although it is an interesting idea.  From my T5 experience (and I think AndyC would agree) you don't really need to rev the nuts off it to extract the performance.  I rarely see past about 4.5k even in fairly spirited driving.  You can, of course, but the speed gains are not as great as you might think.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T5 is an all alloy lump and is lighter than the iron block lump in the MX5. Don't get confused guys, this initial project is staying standard. If we decide we want more power, that's when transplants will happen. A sub 900 kg car with 225 bhp+ is going to be a hoot.
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Roadsterstu
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running prototype at Prescott next year?  
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehehe! Making no promises as usual.
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Roadrunner
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Martin wrote:
Oh dear......you've spent too long in a diesel.  You need is car to get some balance!  

In an every day saloon/estate I'd agree with you, but a small and light convertible is very different.  The fun should come from using the full rev range than wafting along.


I agree. It looks a challenging project to fit a new front and back onto an MX5 but should it work I'd keep it light. One of the pleasures of the MX5 is zipping along using the gears as the drivetrain is a delight.


Another one in agreement. One of my best ever driving experiences was thrashing a lightweight Morgan 4/4 1.6 like I had stolen it. Light years away from my effortlessly wafty Benz, but just what you need for a B-road blast.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blarno wrote:
Hehehe! Making no promises as usual.


We can place bets on whether this or the Mono will make it to Prescott first!
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mono getting there is beyond my control now...
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another vote for a less torquey engine. Torque and light weight are not ideal bedfellows. Years ago I drove a Dutton with a Rover V8 and everytime I thought I was getting it right, it would throw a bit more torque at the rear wheels and I would be seriously sideways again: it wasn't fast.
My Westfield was a special lightweight version which weighed less than 600kg with a heavy 2 litre Vauxhall 16v engine kicking out around 220hp. The engine needed to be above 3,000rpm before it started to pull and over 5,000 for real go but that lead to a much better balance. I still have memories in my head of a particular long corner at East Fortune when I did a sprint. It was flat with a tiny application of opposite lock as the car just rocketed on to the long straight which followed. Balance is everything.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest future proofing this project and using an adapted Prius drivetrain.

You know it makes sense.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
I suggest future proofing this project and using an adapted Prius drivetrain.

You know it makes sense.


Do you want your coat now or later?
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Stuntman
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The forum collective have talked a great deal of good sense regarding the engine.

But...

The noise of a T5-engined conversion is another reason why it might still be a good idea!
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is one of my favourite reasons.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the end of the day, whilst I still don't agree it's the best engine, if you want to bung a T5 in there I'm sure you'll have fun doing it.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I say, it's not happening yet, if at all.

We've got tabs on an H reg Eunos in Stoke that's up for £400, but will take sensible offers. If I can snag that for 300 notes, we're going to shove it in one of our garages and start cutting bits off. It looks to be in good nick bodily so we can easily recoup our outlay selling the panels that bolt off and the hood.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there are any unwanted but useful bits going spare (ideally gratis!) let me know. I may be interested. If there are any you want to sell, I may still have an interest. Depends what there is. Cheers.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know price isn't always reflective of condition, but wouldn't you be better spending a bit more and getting something better as this is going to be your demonstrator?  Or are the really cheap cars mechanically sound with poor bodywork, which is exactly what you're looking for and will you be replacing the suspensions, brakes etc?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect mechanically OK but rusty sills and other cosmetic issues, hoods, trim etc are the reasons. The running gear on MX5s is bulletproof.

Iain, I've seen a silver car in Staffs on the Trader this morning at 300 quid...
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
I know price isn't always reflective of condition, but wouldn't you be better spending a bit more and getting something better as this is going to be your demonstrator?  Or are the really cheap cars mechanically sound with poor bodywork, which is exactly what you're looking for and will you be replacing the suspensions, brakes etc?


As Stu said, MX5s are pretty much bombproof underneath. We'll replace what needs replacing and leave the rest alone. I wouldn't want to be spending upwards of £1k just to cut the bodywork off. A £300 example will easily net that or more just selling the body parts you remove.
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Blarno
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That silver one must have gone, cheapest one now is £500.
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Chip Butty
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

f you want some 5 pot fury, you don't necessarily need a T5. Volvo's 5 cylinder unit came in a range of naturally aspirated flavours :

2.0 10 valve (123 bhp)
2.0 20 valve (143 bhp)
2.5 10 valve (140 bhp)
2.5 20 valve (170 bhp)

The 2.0 20 valve is very sweet and rewarding to work hard - I am sure you could find an 850 with that engine for next to bugger all.
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2008 S60 D5 185
2006 Focus ST 2.5
2001 BMW 520i
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gooner
Twin-charged

My Car: Insignia low tax special and Fiat Panda Eleganza

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 8923


Location: here, there and every bloody where!

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chip Butty wrote:
f you want some 5 pot fury, you don't necessarily need a T5. Volvo's 5 cylinder unit came in a range of naturally aspirated flavours :

2.0 10 valve (123 bhp)
2.0 20 valve (143 bhp)
2.5 10 valve (140 bhp)
2.5 20 valve (170 bhp)

The 2.0 20 valve is very sweet and rewarding to work hard - I am sure you could find an 850 with that engine for next to bugger all.


There's a P plate V70 2.5 on my wife's grannies. We've been meaning to help her shift it since her grandfather passed away last year. Though I know she's reluctant to have an empty drive.
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Matt
Nuclear

My Car: Astra Coupe 1.8 SE2, Corsa 1.2 SXI

Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 11665


Location: Plymouth, UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blarno wrote:
TreVoR wrote:
Mmm. Cobra rep. Don't rule out anything RWD. It would probably fit on Granada, Capri or an old XJ6.


I have an M reg Jap import MX5 on offer to me at £300, but I have to collect it from Bridgend. The idea is to remove the outer skin to see what we have to work with, but crucially have a turnkey solution that will work out of the box.


If you don't buy it, but it checks out OK, let me know. For £300 I'd chop my Astra in for an MX5.
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Blarno
Cheapskate Know-it-all

My Car: The Flying Glacier Mint

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 17038


Location: The Shores of Hell

PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3012773...:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
With any luck, this is our donor.
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Spiderpuncher - A seedy trip into electro industrial madness.

Pathway - Punk. Loud. Probably crap.

Giant wrote:
Blarno is right
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Roadsterstu
Nuclear

My Car: threelitreturbosixallwheeldrive

Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 12728


Location: Over there.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said green!!!
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gooner
Twin-charged

My Car: Insignia low tax special and Fiat Panda Eleganza

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 8923


Location: here, there and every bloody where!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blarno wrote:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3012773...:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
With any luck, this is our donor.


Did you win in the end?
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Blarno
Cheapskate Know-it-all

My Car: The Flying Glacier Mint

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 17038


Location: The Shores of Hell

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, unfortunately. Outbid by a tenner.
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Sphincteral Twitch: Debut EP "Disastrous Rectal Misfortune" work in progress.

Morbid Obesity: Debut album "Shallow Gravy" due...work in progress.

Spiderpuncher - A seedy trip into electro industrial madness.

Pathway - Punk. Loud. Probably crap.

Giant wrote:
Blarno is right
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gooner
Twin-charged

My Car: Insignia low tax special and Fiat Panda Eleganza

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 8923


Location: here, there and every bloody where!

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad luck. There's always bound to be more coming on in the future so hopefully another suitable donor will surface.
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Roadsterstu
Nuclear

My Car: threelitreturbosixallwheeldrive

Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 12728


Location: Over there.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A green one, remember...  
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Blarno
Cheapskate Know-it-all

My Car: The Flying Glacier Mint

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 17038


Location: The Shores of Hell

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We nearly bought a NATO green one last week.
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Sphincteral Twitch: Debut EP "Disastrous Rectal Misfortune" work in progress.

Morbid Obesity: Debut album "Shallow Gravy" due...work in progress.

Spiderpuncher - A seedy trip into electro industrial madness.

Pathway - Punk. Loud. Probably crap.

Giant wrote:
Blarno is right
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Roadsterstu
Nuclear

My Car: threelitreturbosixallwheeldrive

Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 12728


Location: Over there.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Close. Ish.

I need a green driver's door mirror. It sheared off yesterday as I adjusted it. Oops!
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PG
Nuclear

My Car: Jaaaag XFR; Shogun "truck"; Peugeot horse "van"

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 10156


Location: Shropshire

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roadsterstu wrote:
I need a green driver's door mirror. It sheared off yesterday as I adjusted it. Oops!


That sounds a bit dramatic. Don't know you won strength?

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