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Thank you, Matt Prior.
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Nelson
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Thank you, Matt Prior.  Reply with quote

http://www.autocar.co.uk/opinion/...nt-take-away-all-interior-buttons

At last. Finally someone seeing sense and writing about it. I've been abject on this forum about my dislike for touchscreens and in real driving conditions just how distracting they can be and often for me where interior aesthetics and the cabin environment are high priority just how 'cold' and unwelcoming a lone touchscreen can make a cabin feel

As you may know I spend a lot of time driving all manner of cars, vans for customers delivered and collected from around the country. I may not be the most technical driver nor even after nearly 27 years the most advanced, but I am safe and smooth and do when conditions allow like the feeling of driving and getting my shoe down when I can when safe but one thing I have noticed is the decline of a tactile cabin, even something that should be simple like changing the heating temperature has turned into a multi-press on screen process and it means I invariably have to take my eyes off the road momentarily to perform such process.

I welcome technology, having the ability to link my mobile phone via Bluetooth to a screen and be able to take the occasional call hands free is a major advance, I do like in built sat-nav but that is a program once (at the beginning of a journey) thing and then best left alone, but to put simple tasks like heating or changing the radio preset onto a touchscreen is counter intuitive and dangerous in my opinion

But there is a middle ground. Having driven them I reserve a particular hatred for the Peugeot 308. In isolation as a car I think it looks really great and drives nicely but damn is that interior just horrible, I recall that only rarely used functions are left as buttons (heated rear screen, hazards, door locking), everything else is controlled via a touchscreen and the design is just awful too

Where is does work better, is in VWAG products. The new Audi A4 is one of the very best combinations of thoughtfulness, clear design and ergonomic clarity. Proper HVAC controls, a proper stereo volume dial, presets, evem the VW Golf, Passat is an ergonomic masterpiece.

As an example, they do say familiarity breeds contempt, that for me will apply to many modern day car interiors, but there are many fine examples of how it should be even on older cars. My Mondeo, for instance, is a good example. Yes, it's only a fleet favourite Daddy wagon, but I know that when I'm driving I can gently rest my hand on the gear lever and extend a finger and without having to take my eyes off the road can change from Capital FM on preset 3 to Radio2 on preset 2 easily and within milliseconds. I can also operate the heated rear screen button without distraction. It may not have a screen but everything is where it should be

The thought of owning a Tesla scares me, I don't want to be distracted by screens showing me graphs for this and data for this, half of it is meaningless. I don't want gesture control, like available of Mercs and BMW's.

So as far as my unprofessional opinion goes I whole hardheartedly agree with the author and lament the day interiors go button free
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is wrong with the car in the picture?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the article, too.  It's like a good touch screen remote control.  There are hard buttons for the regularly-used functions (vol and channel +/-, menu, epg, mute, info, etc).

I think it's one of those things that wows people in the showrooms, but over-delegation to a touchscreen is sacrificing function to form.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think touchscreens in cars are a dangerous un-necessity (?)
If you're driving along with the car bumping around a bit you HAVE TO take your eyes off the road to make sure you touch the 'button' whereas with a real button you can at least feel the edges of it.

It's all adding to the available distractions that shouldn't be there when conducting 1.5 tonnes of high speed metal.
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Nice Guy Eddie
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% agree. Touchscreens are the devils work
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
I think touchscreens in cars are a dangerous un-necessity (?)
If you're driving along with the car bumping around a bit you HAVE TO take your eyes off the road to make sure you touch the 'button' whereas with a real button you can at least feel the edges of it.



Which buttons do you need to touch while driving? stick those on the steering wheel and rest on touch screen.
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Martin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, really don't like touch screens.  A decent voice control system is the best answer
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
I agree, really don't like touch screens.  A decent voice control system is the best answer


I can see voice control taking over soon(ish). In fact we will all have our own virtual assistant who we will tell to do everything (and who may tell us to do the odd thing as well...)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very much in agreement with you Nelson. I think some stuff, like air con/heating, still need to remain as buttons. But I also like a large, well-placed touch screen for the entertainment.

I think the Prius that I'm driving has done pretty well in that aspect. The vital control buttons are still within reach, and the screen operates only a handful of functions, like audio/radio and the Bluetooth. In fact they can also be controlled via buttons on the steering wheel which makes it so much better.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
What is wrong with the car in the picture?


If you're talking about the XC90 then generally the touch screen works very well but the heating settings are a nightmare as you do have to go into menus. The heated/cooled seat function takes some finding but worst of all is the climate control with is a touch slider. You do need to take your eyes off the road to use this.
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BeN
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
PhilD wrote:
What is wrong with the car in the picture?


If you're talking about the XC90 then generally the touch screen works very well but the heating settings are a nightmare as you do have to go into menus. The heated/cooled seat function takes some finding but worst of all is the climate control with is a touch slider. You do need to take your eyes off the road to use this.


Yup.

The Citroen Picasso is also another offender of this.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
PhilD wrote:
What is wrong with the car in the picture?


If you're talking about the XC90 then generally the touch screen works very well but the heating settings are a nightmare as you do have to go into menus. The heated/cooled seat function takes some finding but worst of all is the climate control with is a touch slider. You do need to take your eyes off the road to use this.


Oh! So are the buttons under it for the stereo? and what's on the steering wheel? Volvo used to be excel at this stuff.
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Michael
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Volvo didn't do a great job of the ergonomics in my car. From memory the controls below are the stereo and they're also replicated on the steering wheel along with the cruise control.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:


Oh! So are the buttons under it for the stereo? and what's on the steering wheel? Volvo used to tell us how they excel at this stuff.



FMP
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BeN
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
Michael wrote:
PhilD wrote:
What is wrong with the car in the picture?


If you're talking about the XC90 then generally the touch screen works very well but the heating settings are a nightmare as you do have to go into menus. The heated/cooled seat function takes some finding but worst of all is the climate control with is a touch slider. You do need to take your eyes off the road to use this.


Oh! So are the buttons under it for the stereo? and what's on the steering wheel? Volvo used to be excel at this stuff.


Some of it. The other buttons are for the hazard lights and heated screens.

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Martin
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The voice control system in mine is pretty good, especially for calls, but I don't need to use it much as nearly all new sat nav destinations are sent from my phone, it's got shortcut buttons, pressing the phone button in the wheel bring up a screen in the instrument panel with loads of recent numbers etc.  Adjusting the climate control, putting the heated seats on etc are all easily done without living your hand much from the wheel.

The Boxster has a touch screen, which I really don't like, but thankfully you can use the buttons/knobs so do most things and it has the (optional) multi-function steering wheel.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Nissan has 3 sets of stereo controls within about 1 foot - steering wheel mounted, dashboard and touch screen.

On the subject of steering controls why have BMW moved the stereo ones from the left hand spoke to the right hand one?
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Nelson
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
The Nissan has 3 sets of stereo controls within about 1 foot - steering wheel mounted, dashboard and touch screen.

On the subject of steering controls why have BMW moved the stereo ones from the left hand spoke to the right hand one?


I can only see that a good move especially in RHD models.

Most drivers if they get the occasion to drive with one hand will choose to hold the steering wheel with their right hand and leave their left one on the centre armrest or atop the gearlever (appreciate most BMW's are autos), so it's makes sense that the most used buttons on the wheel, the stereo ones are there for quick easy access without having to bring your left arm up to use them on the left side of the steering wheel.
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Giant
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think my Astra has got the balance between useful buttons and minimalism just about spot on:

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Nelson
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant wrote:
I think my Astra has got the balance between useful buttons and minimalism just about spot on:



you missing some lower console trim there Giant?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope! Where do you mean?
Below the heater controls is the phone holster, with my phone in it. It holds the phone vertically so no issue of it sliding about, quite a neat solution I think.
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Nelson
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant wrote:
Nope! Where do you mean?
Below the heater controls is the phone holster, with my phone in it. It holds the phone vertically so no issue of it sliding about, quite a neat solution I think.


Oh yeah, so it is, my apologies

It looked on first glance like a missing piece of trim with the connectors and plugs showing at the back of the hole, but can now see the phone and the reflections in it.

I think you mean horizontally though  
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it a touchscreen in the Astor? It does look simple, but how do you know what the temperature is set to and what setting the heated seats are on?  
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nelson wrote:
Giant wrote:
Nope! Where do you mean?
Below the heater controls is the phone holster, with my phone in it. It holds the phone vertically so no issue of it sliding about, quite a neat solution I think.


Oh yeah, so it is, my apologies

It looked on first glance like a missing piece of trim with the connectors and plugs showing at the back of the hole, but can now see the phone and the reflections in it.

I think you mean horizontally though  


On a vertical plane but horizontally on its side!  
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Isn't it a touchscreen in the Astor? It does look simple, but how do you know what the temperature is set to and what setting the heated seats are on?  


It is a touchscreen,great for nav controls, Apple CarPlay and sub menu stuff, all essentials done with buttons.

The screen shows changes when you turn the dials/press the buttons for the heater controls. Like the RR Velar, the mighty Astra shuns cold/hot and sticky leather for for 'premium fabric', making heated seats an unnecessary frippery!  
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it was a similar arrangement in the Holden, even though the climate control had a display.  A bit pointless.  I like the Audi TT solution for Climate Control.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
..... but the heating settings are a nightmare as you do have to go into menus. The heated/cooled seat function takes some finding but worst of all is the climate control with is a touch slider. You do need to take your eyes off the road to use this.


With a decent climate control system you shouldn't need to alter the settings at all (except to demist the windscreen).  My old MY2000 Galaxy had climate, and the C-Max and Fiesta have it.  Once it's set to temperature, I press the "auto" button and it's left alone with the only exceptions being to demist/defrost the windscreen (or to turn it off which garages generally do when they have the cars for servicing, then I have to turn ot back on again)
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my view, the XF has a good balance of buttons (steering wheel and dash mounted) and touch screen.

I think like all things it is about design and implementation.  A huge touch screen might work if the controls are intuitive and the "buttons" big enough. On the other hand a million tiny buttons can be awful.

I can see that slider temperature controls would be a right bugger though!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tactile touchscreens are in production which give feedback and let you feel a 'bump' for the button/slider, so this may be a bit of a moot point shortly
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The real turning point for me in choosing between a 308 and the Golf was looking at the functions of the touchscreen and the lack of buttons. I just think it's dangerous to put so much reliance on the driver being able to keep the car under control with their eyes off the road. Surely the recent change in the laws surrounding using a mobile phone whilst driving and the cases of multiple road deaths that led to calls for them, make it quite clear that this is not the way to go.

Even though it has manual Hvac controls, the Golf still has some functions that have moved to the screen that annoy me. Example being the screen dimmer which is no longer controlled by a small wheel next to the headlight switch (unless you live in a country where VW offer lower end infortainment systems that don't have touchscreen so ironically they have had to add the switch back in). Equally to change radio station there's a toggle switch on the steering wheel, however this doesn't flick between presets as you'd think it logically should, but instead flicks to and from the next station on the scale of all radio stations. Why would I want it to do that?!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resident Spanner wrote:
Tactile touchscreens are in production which give feedback and let you feel a 'bump' for the button/slider, so this may be a bit of a moot point shortly


But you get vibrations, etc when you're driving the car anyway (and they're getting worse/more frequent as car suspension gets stiffer and roads get worse) so you'll still have to take your eyes off the road to make sure your command has been carried out.

Plus how much do they cost to replace/fix at 10 years old when your car will fail its MOT because something trivial, but only accessed via the touchscreen, has stopped working?
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Michael
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resident Spanner wrote:
Tactile touchscreens are in production which give feedback and let you feel a 'bump' for the button/slider, so this may be a bit of a moot point shortly


Those I've seen can only generate bumps in predetermined locations, such as for keypads and they're not tried for longevity yet. I'm not sure I've seen a slider work?
The issue with touchscreens isn't so much that the don't give feedback but you need to look at the screen to know what you're pressing. A lot of us don't even realise we do it but we reach down, fumble around for a know (oh-er missus) and alter the control without taking our eyes off the road. With a touchscreen you loose the tactile markers that allow you to do this.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:

The issue with touchscreens isn't so much that the don't give feedback but you need to look at the screen to know what you're pressing. A lot of us don't even realise we do it but we reach down, fumble around for a know (oh-er missus) and alter the control without taking our eyes off the road. With a touchscreen you lose the tactile markers that allow you to do this.


Pre touch screen I used to be able to text really well whilst driving without having to take my eyes off the road.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously others feel the same way!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39198898
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The authority has also told Jaguar Land Rover that its future advertising must not encourage drivers to perform tasks that might distract their attention from the road."

That's all fine, but where do you draw the line as to what may distract you from the road?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't the new Astra marketed as being a mobile we-fi hotspot or something?
Surely that's in breach along with all the on-board TVs (it doesn't matter if they're restricted while driving, there'll be a hack to overcome it)?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scouse wrote:
"The authority has also told Jaguar Land Rover that its future advertising must not encourage drivers to perform tasks that might distract their attention from the road."

That's all fine, but where do you draw the line as to what may distract you from the road?


You'd ban kids from the car for a start!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a fan either (don't laugh at the photo):

https://www.assurityconsulting.co...ing-at-work-policies#.WMBtkJHfWf0

Be interested to know your opinion. I was asked to write it last week at 4:55 on the day the new laws came in so it was rather thrown together but I think I've made some good points.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:
Be interested to know your opinion. I was asked to write it last week at 4:55 on the day the new laws came in so it was rather thrown together but I think I've made some good points.


It's very interesting; I have worked in some places where driving was considered to be something that needed full concentration, you were not expected to use a mobile phone at all when moving, and if you felt too tired to carry on, stop in a hotel and the company will never argue about the cost as safety was paramount.

Business is business, driving is driving.

Other places have had far less sympathetic policy/guidelines and stretch staff to the limits despite legislation suggesting that they are, if not exactly in the wrong, not doing what is morally correct or what the law was aiming for
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Giant
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:
I'm not a fan either (don't laugh at the photo):

https://www.assurityconsulting.co...ing-at-work-policies#.WMBtkJHfWf0

Be interested to know your opinion. I was asked to write it last week at 4:55 on the day the new laws came in so it was rather thrown together but I think I've made some good points.


I agree with your article. I've stopped taking work calls while driving a few months ago, despite my car having CarPlay hands free etc, precisely because I'd need to recollect something or discuss something in detail, which I felt definitely meant I wasn't giving full attention to driving (nor the caller). Now I let people leave messages and I call back when at my next site.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:


Business is business, driving is driving.



What about taxi drivers?
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Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 14462


Location: The Fortress of Ultimate Darkness; that or the pub.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:
I'm not a fan either (don't laugh at the photo):




Something of the contented funeral director there, eh?  I'm guessing that the tie isn't actually black...



(My apologies - anything of me is significantly less flattering, I freely admit.)
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Martin
Nuclear

My Car: BMW 535d M Sport & Boxster 987.2

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 14425


Location: Higham Ferrers

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you look very smart....hardly recognised you!
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Bob Sacamano
Nuclear

My Car: BMW 320d M Sport Auto

Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 11884



PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a problem with hands free phone calls, both making and receiving them. If you want to go down the distraction route are we going to ban listening to the radio, travelling with argumentative kids/spouses, mother-in-laws in the back seat, women in short skirts walking next to the road, billboard advertising, etc. etc. The whole thing is nonsense - treat people like adults and expect them to behave like them. More nanny-state legislation isn't needed.
When you get a driver's license there are certain responsibilities you take on and knowing when and where it is safe to make and take a phone call should be one of them.
Similarly knowing when to take a break when driving is another - I've sat in meetings where a client's representative has said that they can't drive to a meeting because it's more than 3 hours away and company policy states they can't do a journey of more than that in a day without an overnight stay. Fucking man up.
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Twelfth Monkey
Nuclear

My Car: B7 RS4 Saloon, A3 Sportback 2.0T

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 14462


Location: The Fortress of Ultimate Darkness; that or the pub.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what you are saying, I really do - but experience tends to suggest that people collectively do not step up to the plate when you simply expect them to behave responsibly.
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Bob Sacamano
Nuclear

My Car: BMW 320d M Sport Auto

Joined: 02 Jan 2007
Posts: 11884



PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I understand what you are saying, I really do - but experience tends to suggest that people collectively do not step up to the plate when you simply expect them to behave responsibly.


OK, so we ban alcohol, cigarettes, fatty & sugary foods, limit the drugs and painkillers we are allowed to have in the home, fit 50mph limiters to all vehicles and link them to a GPS system that prevents them speeding in urban areas, limit all vehicles to 100hp and restrict acceleration, fence off all potentially dangerous locations, ban all extreme sports, ban leisure sailing and swimming at areas without lifeguards, turn off the TV and internet network at 10pm...You see where I'm going with this?
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gooner
Twin-charged

My Car: Insignia low tax special and Fiat Panda Eleganza

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 8923


Location: here, there and every bloody where!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I understand what you are saying, I really do - but experience tends to suggest that people collectively do not step up to the plate when you simply expect them to behave responsibly.


OK, so we ban alcohol, cigarettes, fatty & sugary foods, limit the drugs and painkillers we are allowed to have in the home, fit 50mph limiters to all vehicles and link them to a GPS system that prevents them speeding in urban areas, limit all vehicles to 100hp and restrict acceleration, fence off all potentially dangerous locations, ban all extreme sports, ban leisure sailing and swimming at areas without lifeguards, turn off the TV and internet network at 10pm...You see where I'm going with this?


Yes I do. Over the top!

The argument that business calls shouldn't be outlawed because it's no different to speaking to a passenger or listen to the radio is utterly flawed. A passenger is often concentrating on the road as much as you are and the conversation is informal enough for natural breaks in conversation when dealing with junctions etc. Contrast that with the sort of business call a typical sales rep has to deal with. The person on the other end is expecting to be told product details, prices, delivery times and meeting dates etc. They are also blissfully unaware that you may be encountering hazards on the road. Is for this reason that I think it's wrong of companies to expect their mobile workforce to be taking these calls whilst driving.
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Bob Sacamano
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My Car: BMW 320d M Sport Auto

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I understand what you are saying, I really do - but experience tends to suggest that people collectively do not step up to the plate when you simply expect them to behave responsibly.


OK, so we ban alcohol, cigarettes, fatty & sugary foods, limit the drugs and painkillers we are allowed to have in the home, fit 50mph limiters to all vehicles and link them to a GPS system that prevents them speeding in urban areas, limit all vehicles to 100hp and restrict acceleration, fence off all potentially dangerous locations, ban all extreme sports, ban leisure sailing and swimming at areas without lifeguards, turn off the TV and internet network at 10pm...You see where I'm going with this?


Yes I do. Over the top!

The argument that business calls shouldn't be outlawed because it's no different to speaking to a passenger or listen to the radio is utterly flawed. A passenger is often concentrating on the road as much as you are and the conversation is informal enough for natural breaks in conversation when dealing with junctions etc. Contrast that with the sort of business call a typical sales rep has to deal with. The person on the other end is expecting to be told product details, prices, delivery times and meeting dates etc. They are also blissfully unaware that you may be encountering hazards on the road. Is for this reason that I think it's wrong of companies to expect their mobile workforce to be taking these calls whilst driving.


I disagree completely. Show me the evidence it is utterly flawed.

I also disagree that passengers are concentrating on the road as much as the driver - it's never been my experience. Again, show me the evidence. I remember driving with my boss when he asked me a particularly difficult question and while I was thinking about it I went through a speed camera at 56mph and got a ticket.

Re: sales calls on the move; again you're assuming the guy driving is an idiot and doesn't have a brain and can't actually tell the person ringing that he's on the move and if he wants more detailed info he'll have to wait.

How many times do you see parents driving along with two rear view mirrors - the second one to watch the kids in the back? Far more distracting than a mobile phone call. Ban it.

The answer is always ban, never educate.
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gooner
Twin-charged

My Car: Insignia low tax special and Fiat Panda Eleganza

Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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Location: here, there and every bloody where!

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
gooner wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I understand what you are saying, I really do - but experience tends to suggest that people collectively do not step up to the plate when you simply expect them to behave responsibly.


OK, so we ban alcohol, cigarettes, fatty & sugary foods, limit the drugs and painkillers we are allowed to have in the home, fit 50mph limiters to all vehicles and link them to a GPS system that prevents them speeding in urban areas, limit all vehicles to 100hp and restrict acceleration, fence off all potentially dangerous locations, ban all extreme sports, ban leisure sailing and swimming at areas without lifeguards, turn off the TV and internet network at 10pm...You see where I'm going with this?


Yes I do. Over the top!

The argument that business calls shouldn't be outlawed because it's no different to speaking to a passenger or listen to the radio is utterly flawed. A passenger is often concentrating on the road as much as you are and the conversation is informal enough for natural breaks in conversation when dealing with junctions etc. Contrast that with the sort of business call a typical sales rep has to deal with. The person on the other end is expecting to be told product details, prices, delivery times and meeting dates etc. They are also blissfully unaware that you may be encountering hazards on the road. Is for this reason that I think it's wrong of companies to expect their mobile workforce to be taking these calls whilst driving.


I disagree completely. Show me the evidence it is utterly flawed.

I also disagree that passengers are concentrating on the road as much as the driver - it's never been my experience. Again, show me the evidence. I remember driving with my boss when he asked me a particularly difficult question and while I was thinking about it I went through a speed camera at 56mph and got a ticket.

Re: sales calls on the move; again you're assuming the guy driving is an idiot and doesn't have a brain and can't actually tell the person ringing that he's on the move and if he wants more detailed info he'll have to wait.

How many times do you see parents driving along with two rear view mirrors - the second one to watch the kids in the back? Far more distracting than a mobile phone call. Ban it.

The answer is always ban, never educate.


The BBC report evidence from The University of Sussex that hands free calls are equally distracting. If you went through a speed camera and got a ticket whilst trying to recite some technical info then doesn't that prove my point. I stated that a passenger will often be aware of a hazard and shut up whilst you deal with it, it's never a garauntee of course, but much more likely than the person at the end of the phone.
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Martin
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Joined: 22 Dec 2006
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Location: Higham Ferrers

PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I confess to using the phone in the car, but I don't go onto conference calls when I'm driving as that would require too much of my concentration.   Also, I don't drive much during the day, so getting it making calls when I'm in the car are much less frequent than they used to be.

As an example, I had a 30min chat with my old boss on the way home last night (he called me) and I really don't think that was any different to if he was sitting next to me.  I drive more slowly when I'm on the phone, leave bigger gaps etc.  More steadily than I realised, as my journey mpg last night was over 50 when I parked up.

Lindsay's employer has a no using the phone in the car rule, as did HRG who let you order a handsfree kit for the car, but on the proviso that it was only used to charge the phone.....yeah, right.

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