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So it's not just the evo letters page...
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: So it's not just the evo letters page...  Reply with quote

...as the piece on buying a used Golf GTi demonstrates in the 'I bought one' section:

'It joins a 911 C2S and a Fiat 595 Abarth on the drive.'

No reason to mention it, so what is it with so many evo readers?
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kraftwerk
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er, because the mag's for car enthusiasts and it's nice to hear what others are packing?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Less bothered in the “I bought one” section, do they go one to say how it fits in to the stable?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kraftwerk wrote:
Er, because the mag's for car enthusiasts and it's nice to hear what others are packing?


I could agree with that except I don't think you ever hear from anyone who is 'packing' something that cost less than, say, £50k.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Thread of the month" is a similar tale. Oh deary dear. If I was considering selling a 911 to get a GTi I sure as hell would not be bragging about it, it would be merely "I'm looking at GTi's" not the obligatory I HAVE A 911 AND AM THUS A DRIVING GOD AND HAVING MADE MY PERMANENT DRIVING GOD STATUS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR I AM NOW CONSIDERING A 4-POT FWD FAMILY CAR. BECAUSE THAT DOESN;T AFFECT MY DRIVING GOD STATUS ONE BIT, I USED TO HAVE A 911, DON'T YOU KNOW.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALF wrote:
"Thread of the month" is a similar tale. Oh deary dear. If I was considering selling a 911 to get a GTi I sure as hell would not be bragging about it, it would be merely "I'm looking at GTi's" not the obligatory I HAVE A 911 AND AM THUS A DRIVING GOD AND HAVING MADE MY PERMANENT DRIVING GOD STATUS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR I AM NOW CONSIDERING A 4-POT FWD FAMILY CAR. BECAUSE THAT DOESN;T AFFECT MY DRIVING GOD STATUS ONE BIT, I USED TO HAVE A 911, DON'T YOU KNOW.


 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it could just be a way of pre-empting the usual response to any thread about spending more than £20k on a vaguely "sporty" car which is "you can get a s/hand Porsche instead".
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could, if we were beating about the bush and not calling wankers wankers. A non-wanker could simply say "I need 5 doors and don't feel like shelling out thousands a year on servicing" or something like that to get the used porker brigade off their backs.

I'm all for people choosing a car that suits their needs and is also fun - in pretty much every segment there are cars that are fun to drive/own - I am the last person to suggest people need to put up with some "enthusiast" tackle that does not suit their life, but I just wish people could simply say "I'm looking for a 5 door hot hatch for about £25k" without all the "I currently own" bollocks. Because its all one way, if they currently own a 15 year old Civic 1.4, they never mention that.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last letter before the 'thread of the month' bit is a slightly more subtle version of the 'look what I've got'.
The owner says he has a BMW with the DCT gearbox and it works well due to his cars high revving, low torque setup.
That's a V8 M3 isn't it?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not too bothered about people saying whats in their garage as long as its interesting.

If matey was to say that he has bought a Gti and it partners a Civic 1.4 it really doesn't add to the storey. However a 997 and Abarth, I mentally doff my chapeau in his direction as I admire his stable. Of course that works both ways and some would laugh at his lack of imagination buying a 911 and Golf.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like hearing about what others own, no matter what it is. Anything else is jealousy/mean-spiritedness.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Up to a point - many evo letter writers fail the test of saying what they own without being a knobhead. Any reference to being the first on the order list at their dealer immediately disqualifies them.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kraftwerk wrote:
I like hearing about what others own, no matter what it is. Anything else is jealousy/mean-spiritedness.


erm, no its not. As Alf said, it's about wanker spotting.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
kraftwerk wrote:
I like hearing about what others own, no matter what it is. Anything else is jealousy/mean-spiritedness.


erm, no its not. As Alf said, it's about wanker spotting.

Which, in itself, is mean-spiritedness. The idea that one could read a mag like evo and 'wanker-spot' every time someone mentions what they have in their garage, well, it seems to me some might want to give up reading evo and many other car mags.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love reading what other people have got - ok sometimes especially in the evo letters, it could be worded better , but why would you not to read about eg what a supercar is like to live with ?!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy C wrote:
I love reading what other people have got - ok sometimes especially in the evo letters, it could be worded better , but why would you not to read about eg what a supercar is like to live with ?!


But it's not talking about your car, which is fine if that's what the letter is about, but the name-dropping of a certain car and therefore the implication that you know what you're on about in the rest of the piece.  If somebody wants to do a 'readers drives' bit on a letters page, then why not.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, up to a point. Most amateur writers serve merely to show why professional writers are paid for their work.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be fine if the mention of the car they have was relevent but it often comes across as boastful - "I was cruising to the shops in my Feraghineratische when a small child kicked a ball in a nearby park", that kind of thing.
It simply appears that the main purpose of their letter was to tell the world what kind of car they own and the remainder of the letter is just a sort of (badly applied) camouflage.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kraftwerk wrote:
PhilD wrote:
kraftwerk wrote:
I like hearing about what others own, no matter what it is. Anything else is jealousy/mean-spiritedness.


erm, no its not. As Alf said, it's about wanker spotting.

Which, in itself, is mean-spiritedness. The idea that one could read a mag like evo and 'wanker-spot' every time someone mentions what they have in their garage, well, it seems to me some might want to give up reading evo and many other car mags.


Not if deserving of the tag it isn't. "The idea" as you put it is not what we are saying. 12ths original point on this was the comparison with name-dropping, i.e. it serves no other purpose than to show off.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a car mag. What's the problem with 'showing off' your motor in a car mag? It still sounds like jealousy and mean-spiritedness to me and the kind of attitude one would expect from non-car lovers.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kraftwerk wrote:
It's a car mag. What's the problem with 'showing off' your motor in a car mag? It still sounds like jealousy and mean-spiritedness to me and the kind of attitude one would expect from non-car lovers.


So you are against mean-spiritedness but not in favour of being humble?

You are right though, it would be worse if it was a Home Improvement magazine “I built a new garage... for my GTR (which is quicker than a 911 round the Ring)”
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
It would be fine if the mention of the car they have was relevent but it often comes across as boastful - "I was cruising to the shops in my Feraghineratische when a small child kicked a ball in a nearby park", that kind of thing.
It simply appears that the main purpose of their letter was to tell the world what kind of car they own and the remainder of the letter is just a sort of (badly applied) camouflage.


When I show off my new hypercar concept at the Bolton International Motor Show, it's definitely going to be called a Feraghineratische.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, who said we were a nice bunch?!  FWIW, this sort of thing doesn't seem to happen in the other car mags I've read (or at least to anything like as great a degree).

There are ways of mentioning nice things you might own which are merely (or largely) enthusiast in nature, and ways which are reminiscent of the braying bar-bore.

Either that, Chris, or you're just a nicer guy than many of us.  That is entirely plausible!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Either that, Chris, or you're just a nicer guy than many of us.  Given that you're a Weegie that is entirely implausible!


FYP  
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to Google that!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with Kraft. I read that buyers guide and didn't think anything of his comment until it was pointed out here. If anything mentioning the other cars tells me that he's an enthusiast and, yes, probably does enjoy driving cars that are great to drive. Thus if he enjoys the mk6 GTI then surely we can conclude that the Golf GTI is a great second car for a 911 owner.

Concluding that the guy is clearly a wanker for mentioning it is reading a bit too much into it perhaps?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gooner wrote:
Agree with Kraft. I read that buyers guide and didn't think anything of his comment until it was pointed out here. If anything mentioning the other cars tells me that he's an enthusiast and, yes, probably does enjoy driving cars that are great to drive. Thus if he enjoys the mk6 GTI then surely we can conclude that the Golf GTI is a great second car for a 911 owner.

Concluding that the guy is clearly a wanker for mentioning it is reading a bit too much into it perhaps?


Although a MkV GTI is, obviously, far superior!!  

/moonboots mode off
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
kraftwerk wrote:
I like hearing about what others own, no matter what it is. Anything else is jealousy/mean-spiritedness.


erm, no its not. As Alf said, it's about wanker spotting.


Wanker spotting is easy in EVO, just look for the list of staff and contributors.  
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant wrote:
PhilD wrote:
kraftwerk wrote:
I like hearing about what others own, no matter what it is. Anything else is jealousy/mean-spiritedness.


erm, no its not. As Alf said, it's about wanker spotting.


Wanker spotting is easy in EVO, just look for the list of staff and contributors.  


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gooner wrote:
Concluding that the guy is clearly a wanker for mentioning it is reading a bit too much into it perhaps?


Quite possibly.  I think its the steady drip of letters and comments in this vein that I can't help but notice.  Which was all I meant originally.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read the offending piece now. Guy is clearly a wanker.


For speccing his 911 with PDK  

This month is R8. No mention of what else is on Mr I Bought One's drive, so we can only assume it's a Civic 1.4
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My aunt used to run a hotel. She had a guest checking in one day and filling in the registration form he got to the box that asks for your car reg. He asked, "do you want the number of the car I've brought or my Rolls Royce?"
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant wrote:
PhilD wrote:
kraftwerk wrote:
I like hearing about what others own, no matter what it is. Anything else is jealousy/mean-spiritedness.


erm, no its not. As Alf said, it's about wanker spotting.


Wanker spotting is easy in EVO, just look for the list of staff and contributors.  


Harsh.

Reading the Metcalf obituary (well it read a bit like one) I was reminded how good a writer Peter Tomalin is and how, despite improving, how Catchpole just isn’t in the same league. I don’t know why they get him to write the big feature pieces, maybe he is the only person free?!  Bovingdon’s videos are also pretty good, I got the impression from his writing he was a bit of a dick but he comes across pretty well in the videos and now I read him in a more favourable light.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whenever I've read EVO, most recently at least a year ago admittedly, I've found the style extremely exclusive in a 'I'm quite a hand y'know, lesser drivers won't appreciate this car fully' kind of way that I find utterly unappealing.
I find it odd that so many of you find the boastful nature of the letters page disagreeable when I've found that to be the prevalent tone of the whole magazine.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't say I've ever noticed a boastful tone from the writers, so can't see any contradiction. I do think it has lost something though since the Driver's Republic thing, and the likes of Barker & Tomlin leaving. And now Harry is off too.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant wrote:
Whenever I've read EVO, most recently at least a year ago admittedly, I've found the style extremely exclusive in a 'I'm quite a hand y'know, lesser drivers won't appreciate this car fully' kind of way that I find utterly unappealing.
I find it odd that so many of you find the boastful nature of the letters page disagreeable when I've found that to be the prevalent tone of the whole magazine.


This.

Troy Queef is every EVO scribe amalgamated.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only flicked through my copy, but it really does come across as an obit from first glance. How very morbid.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giant wrote:
Whenever I've read EVO, most recently at least a year ago admittedly, I've found the style extremely exclusive in a 'I'm quite a hand y'know, lesser drivers won't appreciate this car fully' kind of way that I find utterly unappealing.
I find it odd that so many of you find the boastful nature of the letters page disagreeable when I've found that to be the prevalent tone of the whole magazine.


I can't say I have noticed this either - other than to say their journos generally are better drivers with a lot more track/race/high performance experience compared to most mags. I don't personally find they write as if they are superior, to me they simply write about on the limit driving as people that seem to know what they are talking about, and many from other mags do not. There is en elitist "investment" angle in the back of the mag quite often, but it is a mag covering supercars more than most do, so that's no surprise...
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALF wrote:
Giant wrote:
Whenever I've read EVO, most recently at least a year ago admittedly, I've found the style extremely exclusive in a 'I'm quite a hand y'know, lesser drivers won't appreciate this car fully' kind of way that I find utterly unappealing.
I find it odd that so many of you find the boastful nature of the letters page disagreeable when I've found that to be the prevalent tone of the whole magazine.


I can't say I have noticed this either - other than to say their journos generally are better drivers with a lot more track/race/high performance experience compared to most mags. I don't personally find they write as if they are superior, to me they simply write about on the limit driving as people that seem to know what they are talking about, and many from other mags do not. There is en elitist "investment" angle in the back of the mag quite often, but it is a mag covering supercars more than most do, so that's no surprise...


That's because you're Alf McQueef!    
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:


Reading the Metcalf obituary (well it read a bit like one) I was reminded how good a writer Peter Tomalin is and how, despite improving, how Catchpole just isn’t in the same league. I don’t know why they get him to write the big feature pieces, maybe he is the only person free?!  Bovingdon’s videos are also pretty good, I got the impression from his writing he was a bit of a dick but he comes across pretty well in the videos and now I read him in a more favourable light.


That's interesting. Down to personal taste of course so there is no right answer, but Catchpole is my favourite Evo writer. Some of his 'epic road trips' don't really include enough about the car he's in but I do like his style.

Bovingdon leaves me cold.

Meaden is readable and I wish Tomalin would write more. Always thought Vivian was 'Queef' but he gives a good article. Barker is missed.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skyhook wrote:
That's interesting. Down to personal taste of course so there is no right answer, but Catchpole is my favourite Evo writer. Some of his 'epic road trips' don't really include enough about the car he's in but I do like his style.

Bovingdon leaves me cold.

Meaden is readable and I wish Tomalin would write more. Always thought Vivian was 'Queef' but he gives a good article. Barker is missed.


I think they all write well too.
Vivian has 'de-Queefed' his content in the last couple of years.
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Alf McQueef
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My Car: XFR / C Max 1.6T Ti

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:


That's because you're Alf McQueef!    


There is a serious side to your jesting, though - without wanting to come over all "exclusive" myself, I drive and feel the dynamics of the car in a totally different way post the racing compared to before. After about 6 months of regular track days and on the limit driving tuition I felt I had a very different handle on vehicle dynamics, mainly in the application of weight transfer to help turn a car, even in normal driving, and a better feel for driving at and beyond the limit - and how high the limit is, and how the car remains predictable in extremis. I find myself using weight transfer through use of the brake and throttle before and during a corner to steer a car even at very ordinary speeds, on every journey, well below the limit. The car is just more willing to change direction that way, making the drive smoother and more enjoyable.

Then after another year of racing or trackdays or tuition every other weekend I was at another level again where - on track at least - I felt on the limit right through the braking, turn-in, mid corner, and exit phases (the initial focus was on corner exit). I was regularly on the podium and posting poles and fastest laps for the next year.

I have lost a lot of that sheer track pace now but there is no doubt that people that have done a lot of track work - especially competitive work - will be able to better feel and describe what is going on in performance driving, and will be feeling more and pushing the car harder than most drivers. I can see right through some of the crap lesser writers spout - yet in Evo they mostly seem spot-on, and I trust them.

I personally think this stuff filters down and that Joe Bloggs will instinctively feel some of the benefits of say a 3 series over an Octavia, and so on, even at sane speeds. My wife certainly has that feel - she was totally anti-BMW but loves my car now, having driven it a fair bit - she thought the A4 miserable.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Porter's piece about car forums this week is hard to fault.  We might consider ourselves a cut above, but there are many nuggets of truth.  I certainly see me once or twice!

Also nice to see from the letters page that my assessment of the Diablo as a suitable investment is so wrong, and from someone who (to borrow a word from Porter's piece) artlessly adds an apropos of nothing reference to his latest megabucks purchase...
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Skyhook wrote:
That's interesting. Down to personal taste of course so there is no right answer, but Catchpole is my favourite Evo writer. Some of his 'epic road trips' don't really include enough about the car he's in but I do like his style.

Bovingdon leaves me cold.

Meaden is readable and I wish Tomalin would write more. Always thought Vivian was 'Queef' but he gives a good article. Barker is missed.


I think they all write well too.
Vivian has 'de-Queefed' his content in the last couple of years.


Don't get me wrong I think they are all write well (apart from the odd guest reviewer) I actually meant the ECOTY type pieces, not 'epic road trips' etc, where Tomalin was just brilliant and Catchpole tries to hard.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Porter's piece about car forums this week is hard to fault.  We might consider ourselves a cut above, but there are many nuggets of truth.  I certainly see me once or twice!

Also nice to see from the letters page that my assessment of the Diablo as a suitable investment is so wrong, and from someone who (to borrow a word from Porter's piece) artlessly adds an apropos of nothing reference to his latest megabucks purchase...




Evo 191? Turns out my subs continue I just needed to change address. Though no sign of 191.

EDIT: it dropped through the letter box moments after I posted.

And 12th, ouch!
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not expecting them to add this to the mix!

As a regular at a small car forum, I must congratulate Richard Porter for his wry view of such places (evo 191).  I certainly see myself in it once or twice, but have no problem with laughing at myself.  I also think that the word ‘artless’ (as used about none-too-subtle references to expensive possessions) is distinctly underused, and vow to try to set this straight.

Having expressed a view about a car on your letters page recently, I notice a rebuttal from an owner of a similar model.  Good luck to the man, I’m glad his experience has been better than I would have expected.  Of course, that doesn’t mean his experience is the norm, but good luck to him nonetheless.  However, ending the letter in question is a decidedly artless reference to a recent and rather expensive car purchase.  This does not relate to the subject in hand.  It’s an observation that I can make in wry fashion (and hope that those who frequent the magazine don’t take umbrage), that the phrase ‘it is joined by/it joins’ on the evo letters page will often be followed by something similarly artless.  Surely the satisfaction inherent in owning such wonderful things is what matters, not feeling the need to shoehorn a reference to them in whenever the chance allows, whether relevant or not?

Returning to the world of the car forum, I’ll stand back and await a flaming!
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Stuntman
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You make your point so artlessly
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Twelfth Monkey
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My Car: B7 RS4 Saloon, A3 Sportback 2.0T

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aye, there couldn't be less art in it, could there?
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read this just after I had parked my new Rolls Royce Wraith in the garage after dropping my daughter back at Roedean after a weekend in Milan. I write this as I sip my Illy coffee following a light brunch of smoked salmon and quail's eggs on lightly toasted artisan bread and go in search of the keys to my Aventadore that will convey me to my country club where I have a brief business meeting prior to a round of golf and a late lunch.

I'm sorry, what was your point again?


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