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My big fat F1 idea

 
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:59 pm    Post subject: My big fat F1 idea  Reply with quote

So, the problem is that F1 is boring. The cars are so easy to drive that some barely post-pubertal kid can rock up and win races. So how do we fix it? Well, here's a suggestion: there are an increasing number of road cars in the 1000 - 1500 bhp range, so how about reclaiming the idea of F1 as the ultimate, and having a formula where you need at least 2000 bhp to be competitive. Still with rear drive only, of course, and cotton-reel tyres like they had in the 1970s.

I don't know how you'd implement this, but my basic idea is something like allowing so much fuel per race (about twice as much as now, as the fuel the cars use in the race pales into insignificance against the fuel used by the 747 freighters that transport them there). And yes, let's have some hybrid assistance too, to add the last 500 bhp or so, but let's end up with cars that are seriously hard to drive, and seriously fast, so we can see who's really the best driver in the world.
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BeN
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Doc. Nice to see you back again.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I think the problem is having the manufacturers involved. Mercedes, Renault, Honda are too interested in making F1 relate to their publicly offered products and sales so want all this stability and reliability so you don't think their road cars are junk.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They wouldn't have to be unreliable, just bloody fast and not easy to drive.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love it Doc. F1 cars should not be out horsepowered by 5 odd road cars.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice idea but safety concerns would put paid to it straight off.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
Nice idea but safety concerns would put paid to it straight off.


Introduce with the new head protections stuff and remind everyone that many of the tracks have been sanitised and you might just get away with it.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
Bob Sacamano wrote:
Nice idea but safety concerns would put paid to it straight off.

Introduce with the new head protections stuff and remind everyone that many of the tracks have been sanitised and you might just get away with it.

Indeed. Given that you can barely see the driver now, a move to a Red Bull X2010 (or jet fighter) style cockpit wouldn't be a big shift.

And as Phil says, it seems wrong for F1 cars to be substantially outperformed by road cars. Since there's not much scope for making them lighter, more power seems the logical way to go - after all, in qualifying in the 1980s, they were heading towards 1500 bhp.
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Sav
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itís such a complicated topic. We could be here for five years discussing this. Letís give it a goÖ

I donít think that modern F1 is boring. I can think of more boring periods, such as 2004 or the second half of 2013 where even I struggled to defend the sport. Strange as it sounds, the Friday practice session at Suzuka was the most entertaining day of the weekend. We had drivers making mistakes and being punished for running wide, drivers getting sideways and having to correct it. Alonso in particular had a handful and whilst it wasnít fast, it looked more impressive than one of the Mercís being driven around.

Clearly, these hybridised regulations are met with distain by many. I can partly see why, and I donít disagree with some of the gripes. The lack of noise is still unforgivable. Nobody would attend a silent music concert; noise (and lots of it) is an integral part of motorsport. Even when the racing was dull with the V10 and V8ís, at least there was the sensational noise and the sheer volume of it.

But are the current regulations all negative? 2014 was actually one of the most positive years of the sport. Finally, downforce was massively decreased, and that meant straightway speeds increased, braking zones lengthened and cornering speeds had been reduced. This was exactly what needed to happen to produce better racing. Ignoring the dominance of Mercedes, the racing was terrific. We saw actual battles for the lead on-track Ė not through the pits or through some ever strategic measure Ė finally this so-called ďracingĒ series was actually producing some great racing on a consistent basis. Bahrain 2014, Austin 2014, Monza 2014 and Hungary 2014 were all fantastic motor races.

The hybrid engines also meant a massive increase in torque, and combined with less downforce, the cars were more oversteery, and the drivers had to use more track to get it straightened up whilst exiting the turns. They were squirmier under braking too. Unfortunately, the natural development of F1 took over. By this, I mean aerodynamics got perfected by the teams with ever more downforce in 2015 and 2016. This unfortunately has resulted in more stable cars. Cornering speeds have risen so turbulence has increased, and braking zones have shortened. This has all harmed the racing compared to 2014.

If you want the cars to be harder to drive, reducing downforce is the answer. It will result in the cars snapping sideways more often through high-speed turns and more wheel-spin on corner exit. Plus, drivers will be able follow other cars more closely. Quite simply, the aerodynamic development is costly, irrelevant and significantly and harms the racing. Sure, you can increase power to 2000 bhp, but if that results in more downforce, that 2000 bhp all of a sudden wonít look so impressive.

Less downforce is actually safer. Accidents happen in the turns, not the straightaway. So if the cars had 2000 bhp but had less downforce, it would force the drivers to back off to a greater extent entering the corners, the cornering speed would reduce, meaning that if a driver does lose control, heíll sphere off the circuit at lesser speed. No wonder these huge tarmac run-off areas are needed because the cornering speeds have been creeping up and the FIA have had to take this into account when approving new circuits. Letís have more power and less downforce Ė this needs to apply to many forms of modern racing Ė not only F1.

This would result in more driver control, better and safer racing, and proper track limits because the drivers wouldnít be arriving at such a rate of speed as they are today. Almost 190 mph through Copse? Nope, I say the drivers should be braking and downshifting to a greater extent.

I propose serious limitations in aerodynamic development permitted, including much simpler wings and diffusers, and perhaps even homologated aerodynamics over a season. In-turn this would eliminate in-season aerodynamic development thatís costly, a luxury that only the big teams can truly afford. Ted Kravitz would be upset, he couldnít gorp over a new front wing on a Friday morning, but apart from that, nobody else would care.

To what extent should F1 be attractive to mass car manufacturers? F1 should broadly reflect what happens in the motor industry, but the core attractions of motorsport must remain. The lack of noise wholly unacceptable, whilst thereís no doubt that the current technology is impressive, I donít see this engaging fans compared to noisy engines. Also, the fact that the engines cost 18 million euros to lease is an unsustainable for privateers.

Formula E and WEC are often-talked about as better options for car manufacturers. Despite the hype around both series, the viewership of both series is very limited. This is perhaps proof that the presence of mass manufacturers doesnít particularly interest fans. I always say this, but the ACO made a big mistake in making LMP1 a playground for mass manufacturers. The rules basically make it only possible for car companies with the largest R&D budgets to compete. Now it looks like Audi will leave, with only Toyota and Porsche left. Peugeot left a few years ago as well. LMP1 is often talked about as better than F1. Why? You have similar spending, no privateers (now Rebellion are leaving), even more driver-aids and only two automotive groups involved. Itís easy to easy to chastise F1, but the supposed great alternative isnít healthy.
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gooner
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A big part of me still feels that F1 cars are all a bit too samey. I know that the Mercedes is obviously a different beast to the Honda, which is why Rosberg could be champion and Fernando Alonso will not, but with all the rules and regulations being so restrictive it doesn't feel like the manufacturers are innovating enough, just trying to find the best fit to the current rules.

Why does there have to be only one engine design and configuration? Why not allow teams to have a stinking NA V10 if they like? Another team might still have a hybrid 6cyl engine but that's the gamble they take. More in season changes should be allowed too so that new ideas come through quicker and are seen on the racetrack not just behind the closed doors of the teams factories.

I appreciate a lot of this has to do with the cost of the sport, but if it's going to be the pinnacle of Motorsport (which the title Formula 1 says it should be) why should it be cheap?!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree the current regulations are far to prescriptive, Iirc when I started watching (early '90s) there were teams with cosworth V8s, Renault V10s and Ferrari and Lamborghini V12s
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Boxer6
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re the cost; saw a 'rough' breakdown of F1 team costs recently (can't remember where, sadly) which suggested the top teams budget are in the region of a $1billion p.a.
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gooner
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boxer6 wrote:
Re the cost; saw a 'rough' breakdown of F1 team costs recently (can't remember where, sadly) which suggested the top teams budget are in the region of a $1billion p.a.


So why not let 4 or 5 big teams with 3 or even 4 drivers each battle it out creating the best car they possibly can? Currently they're being held back in what they can do because the sport has to be affordable for the smaller teams. That just makes no sense for what is meant to be the top level of Motorsport. I don't find any interest in watching the battle for the lower finishing places and I wouldn't miss it if there was only 12 drivers competing for less teams.
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Sav
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was watching the 2005 Japanese Grand Prix the other day. There we go Ė one of the finest motor races in modern times; people often say reverse the field, job done! †

Different engine configurations would be interesting, but the arguments would be non-stop. I recall when the old V8ís were introduced in 2006 and Toro Rosso was going to keep running their Ferrari V10 in that season. The scaremongering was absurd; some said that Toro Rosso might win the first few races. Of course that didnít happen. Various forms of sportscar and touring car racing have never-ending arguments and balance of performance changes with the aim of equivalency. F1 is already absurdly expensive, but an open engine formula would balloon costs even further. And anyhow, thereís usually only one fast option, and once teams realise what works, they would all migrate to the same type of engine, which makes the whole concept of an open engine formula redundant.

I think reducing downforce is essential. At present the cars donít lack power, combined with the motor generator they have more than 950 bhp Ė judging a 1000 bhp. However, because the cars have become more stable with ever more downforce, so it doesnít look particularly dramatic. You can increase power to 2000 bhp, but then people will demand more downforce therefore drag, consequently as absurd as it sounds that 2000 bhp wonít look particularly spectacular. Reducing downforce would bring back more driver control. Flat-out through Eau Rouge and turn 12 and 130R at Suzuka? No thank you, even the Manor does this now Ė letís see them lift and have to judge the speed through the corner.

Next yearís regulations are a big step in the wrong direction. Despite having 950 bhp + theyíll be like big F3 cars. So that means cars pinned to the tarmac and with more aerodynamic grip than power. There will also be lesser top speeds, shorter braking distances therefore fewer opportunities to overtake. A few people wanted the cars to go 5 seconds a lap faster, I hope they enjoy watching faster laptimes when in reality nobody can tell the difference. However, many people will almost complain at even lesser overtaking compared to at present.


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