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How much!! (Part XXXVII)
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject: How much!! (Part XXXVII)  Reply with quote

Toyota GT 86 offers 197bhp and (more tellingly) 151 torks for almost £30k?

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/260225/

And I seem to recall that Honda wants £26k for its 4-pot diesel Civic (post revamp).   More than a basic 3 series with similar (if not superior) figures.

EDIT: There we go:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarRevie...es/Honda-Civic-2.2D-EX-GT/259801/
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Humphrey The Pug
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cost of cars, run of the mill stuff, never ceases to amaze me.
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, it's the weakness of the £/€ in most instances, although other currencies also seem to be an issue at the moment too.

If you must have a new car then it's time to pay-up, likewise it seems PCP deals are no more expensive than a few years back so resale must be assumed to be pretty strong.  I guess it's a case of making more money from each unit rather than through high sales numbers.

Buying a brand new car one day is much further away from me than it ever has been before - better off sticking to used methinks.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or only changing when there's a good enough reason?  I'd guess that a fair few of us have got used to the notion of 'I change my car every X years', and if you start thinking like that it's hard to change.  The Beast enters its sixth year in mid-January.
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Bob Sacamano
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always suspected the £20-£20k price was  optimistic. Given that it'll be initially very popular, why wouldn't you pitch it at £28k to start with.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure that a £28k tag won't prevent it from ever becoming very popular.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't really compare Japanese and German list prices, as the latter won't resemble the final cost. It is disappointing it's not cheaper, but as the OP commented, even mundane hatches are getting towards 25k. And kudos to Toyota for fitting it with an LSD.
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the other ct
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignoring the Germans Toyota's price seem very optimistic against 30K for a new 370Z with lots more performance.
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Matt
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whilst The Beast may be nearing its sixth birthday, I honestly can't think of a single car of a similar ilk released since that appeals anywhere near that level - the C63 being somewhat close based on how they sound and look.

As for the GT86, what an underwhelming piece of design. Looks like it could have followed the mid-90s Celica, not 15 years down the line.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank Bullitt wrote:
If you must have a new car then it's time to pay-up, likewise it seems PCP deals are no more expensive than a few years back so resale must be assumed to be pretty strong.  I guess it's a case of making more money from each unit rather than through high sales numbers.

Buying a brand new car one day is much further away from me than it ever has been before - better off sticking to used methinks.


From what I see the used market is in not much better shape than the new one, I guess PCP's must be being subsidised somewhere along the road.

I think the tide has turned on the "must have a new car" mentality.

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Or only changing when there's a good enough reason?  I'd guess that a fair few of us have got used to the notion of 'I change my car every X years', and if you start thinking like that it's hard to change.  The Beast enters its sixth year in mid-January.


I think that's changing, the only people I know who change their cars with fixed frequency are in company cars, and even then it's moving to 4 or even 5 years.

Our neighbours did have 2 new cars earlier this year but one was an XC90 bought for off-road use (mild) and weekly trips to the lake district prior to doing the "Bob Graham" round and replaced a 7 yr old Accord estate, and a Qashqai to replace a 14 yr old Escort Diesel which failed it's MOT.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Or only changing when there's a good enough reason?  I'd guess that a fair few of us have got used to the notion of 'I change my car every X years', and if you start thinking like that it's hard to change.  The Beast enters its sixth year in mid-January.


Perhaps The Beast needs to be garaged and used as a weekend toy and a humdrum hatch used as the daily hack? It should never be sold!
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt wrote:
Whilst The Beast may be nearing its sixth birthday


You'll hurt his feelings! Entering a sixth year means turning five!
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Parm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to this, it will be less than 28K :

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/260282/
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Nelson
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmm, now I do like that a lot.

piss poor torques is worrying, where have they all escaped to? but I would rather have one of them than a Scirocco or Astra GTC.

Bit pricey though when you think you can get a V6 engineed 370Z with over 300 horses for just a few thousand more.

Can't wait to see one of them on the road....what a cracking looking car.
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Matt
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Massive effort gone into the brand identities here...





Although with Subaru's erratic design directions it'll probably look completely different in 18-months.
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PhilD
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not seeing the low bonnet that people were talking about.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From that angle - it is pig ugly.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarRevie...rstDrives/Ford-Mustang-GT/260249/

Now this is much more my kind of thing - shame they won't bring it to the UK.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guitar Zero wrote:
From that angle - it is pig ugly.


+1  Looks like a 90's American 'Cooop' such as the Dodge Eclipse.

Make mine a well looked after Mazda RX8.
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Michael
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks more like son of Paseo than son of Celica.
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Grampa
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gonnabuildabuggy wrote:
Frank Bullitt wrote:
If you must have a new car then it's time to pay-up, likewise it seems PCP deals are no more expensive than a few years back so resale must be assumed to be pretty strong.  I guess it's a case of making more money from each unit rather than through high sales numbers.

Buying a brand new car one day is much further away from me than it ever has been before - better off sticking to used methinks.


From what I see the used market is in not much better shape than the new one, I guess PCP's must be being subsidised somewhere along the road.

I think the tide has turned on the "must have a new car" mentality.

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
Or only changing when there's a good enough reason?  I'd guess that a fair few of us have got used to the notion of 'I change my car every X years', and if you start thinking like that it's hard to change.  The Beast enters its sixth year in mid-January.


I think that's changing, the only people I know who change their cars with fixed frequency are in company cars, and even then it's moving to 4 or even 5 years. .


I still change every three years - I set my budget on a monthly basis not as an overall cost - it's the monthly cost that registers in my pocket - and my budget won't run to anything nearly new, so I keep to the new option.

I have looked at keeping the Scirocco longer, but the saving is not that great.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grandpa has the right idea: it's the monthly outlay you need to look at, not the massive list-price. If you know you're spending £300 a month on some nice wheels for 3 years and then £325 for the three after that etc. having a new car and the non-hassle involved is fine.

The only cars that show a 3-year asset appreciation are rare classics (that cost you a fortune to keep that way) and the McLaren F1 (which also costs a fortune to run). Cars are effectively money pissed up the wall (says a man that has bought three brand new BMWs in his time) so pissing it slowly and steadily is preferable.

Jean-Luc is half the price of the other 2 I considered and currently hasn't put a foot wrong - which is good as it just sits in Wimbledon all week long depreciating. Those other 2 will be worth what J-L cost me next August I reckon so I've done the right thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt wrote:
As for the GT86, what an underwhelming piece of design. Looks like it could have followed the mid-90s Celica, not 15 years down the line.


Quite agreed. And I think they've added in some Mk 1 and Mk II Hyundai Coupe as well to catch the Korean fans.

Mind you, this Celica will probably be the best looking Subaru in a while.
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Pkh72
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite like the Subaru version in the metallic blue with a big rear wing.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the look of both of them - probably edging towards the Subaru version - even with the front bumper borrowed from Peugeot.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PG wrote:
Matt wrote:
As for the GT86, what an underwhelming piece of design. Looks like it could have followed the mid-90s Celica, not 15 years down the line.


Quite agreed. And I think they've added in some Mk 1 and Mk II Hyundai Coupe as well to catch the Korean fans.

Mind you, this Celica will probably be the best looking Subaru in a while.


I'm afraid I'd be tempted to save my cash and just by a 2003 Celica 190 Premium instead, in fact sod that, I'd just spend £5K ish on an old Supra or Nissan S15.

The point about pissing slowly and steadily is spot on, it's the lease cost that matters on new stuff, you'd need to be fairly mad to invest hard earned cash into buying a brand new car outright. Especially when you get some cracking lease deals about.

For me leasing an A6 2.0TDi Avant SE for £330 per month makes a lot more sense than buying a new or nearly new car. Then I realised that for that payment I've paid off my 535 in 6 months. I know which will be more fun and which I'd worry least about.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bob Sacamano wrote:
even with the front bumper borrowed from Peugeot.


Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

£24,995

http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/t...ng&zone=Zone+Cars&sr=Mall
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sub £17k in Japanese Blarnosport spec:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=25155
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a pretty good idea - sell it stripped out and let people add what they want as and when they can afford it.
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting.

Looks like UK prices are aligned to Japanese prices (1.9m Yen for the stripped out version, whereas ours is closer to the top spec 3m Yen model (50% more for the FG), however they don't expect people to leave it poverty but instead spec it up with options.

Just like the original L/XL/GT packs that the Capri came with as Mk1 (hence you could buy a GTXLR model), which itself copied the concept from the Mustang.

I for one would be up with that concept.

I wonder if this might become a new trend in these straightened times?
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Matt
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The design had already started to grow on me, but that stripped out model is fantastic.

Bum basic - it (should) be the future.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they can control the resale market on these and not do the usual Toyota or Subaru depreciaition disaster areas, I'd be keen. Spent about the same on a Golf a few years ago (leased) and I'd have rather had this at the time.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt wrote:
The design had already started to grow on me, but that stripped out model is fantastic. Bum basic - it (should) be the future.

I like it too, though a shame they removed the LSD.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Needs keep-fit windows for the true Blarnosport spec...
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steady on. There are some things that are just too basic.

Keep the steelies for some winter tyres, put some nice, quality alloys on

Needs LSD

Off to the trackday.

Or, buy a decent Jap spec and import it, ignoring all the bollocks about parts, reliability, etc.

Harris likes:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=25161

Doesn't sound like it has a flat 4 to me, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It it does look fun!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Autocar's E63 AMG.  Lists at £74695.  

Options include:

Performance package plus £6495.
AMG exterior carbon stuff £3565.
AMG luxury package £3440.
AMG carbon ceramic brakes £9300. (What?)
Driving assistance package £1660.
AMG LSD £2570.
AMG Carbon fibre interior tat £2845.
Plus lots of other little bits and bobs.

Total (which they remark upon as 'scary') £110,005.

A lot of car, but (as per most press cars) stupidly equipped.  But that isn't what gets me.  It's the stuff that should be on it anyway, the E being an 'executive' veehicule in the first place.

Hands free prep £290.
Sports seats £1090.
Tyre pressure monitors £295.
Speed limit assist plus £300.
6CD changer £250.
Me too white paint £480.

And the one that would make me gouge out the eyes of the salesperson:

Split folding rear seats £415.

They should be standard on the most boggy of bog-standard saloons.  It's piss-takery along the lines of paying a couple of grand to raise the speed limiter, which I've seen on a few of the Germans lately.  I suspect the cost in terms of software is measured in fractions of a penny.

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I am unlikely ever to buy a new car again.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at Mercedes World before Christmas and the most interesting thing was the prices of the secondhand AMGs parked in front of the showroom. They all had this kind of spec, had done 10000 miles or less, and lost at least 1/3 of new price. I know where my money would go.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting to read that the UK is getting a stripped out version of the Subaru BRZ. Fingers crossed its the same as the Toyota one with the steelies and unpainted bumpers.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't want to be a PR boy for Mercedes but  surprisingly in real terms the E63 is far cheaper than AMG Es of old -all which would be over 80k today. A E55 estate was £62,840 in 1998- £86421 today against £76,895 of E63  estate
Likwise a  new 3 series far cheaper today
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt the press were running £40k 320ds.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be getting old but I look at new and used car prices and I suddenly start thinking (in a Yorkshire accent) "in my day you could get a used Discovery 3 for £25k and still have money left over for a drink after". It seems very hard to buy interesting cars for under £30k now.
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit that I eye everything costing much more than £20k and packing less than six cylinders with suspicion.  I am both living in the past and doomed to disappointment.
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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My local Merc garage has a brand new G Class - that's the original square one - 300D (I think, it's certainly not a petrol or AMG version) that has cloth seats, etc and they want over £90k for it  
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Twelfth Monkey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been there long?


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Tim
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a place I venture into very often  
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Frank Bullitt
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
And the one that would make me gouge out the eyes of the salesperson:

Split folding rear seats £415.

They should be standard on the most boggy of bog-standard saloons.  


To be fair, it has always been a common option on many German saloon cars but, at that price, it's a third of the way to the whole estate car.

Got to be honest, there does seem little appeal in spending some serious money on normal stuff, much rather let somebody else take the hit!  Even assuming the person who bought our C4P got it at the Drive The Deal price, we only paid about 60% of that so it's fair to assume the retained value was only 50% of the discounted price after 30 months!
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gonnabuildabuggy
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twelfth Monkey wrote:
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I am unlikely ever to buy a new car again.


I reached that conclusion a long time ago.

When modern car bodies last 12 yrs or more, Modern mechanicals are good for 150-200K miles, why would you spend money on an asset that is only going to depreciate?

In some ways a Supercar purchase makes more sense that a boggo Focus.

The only reason I can see to buy new is if you get something you can't get nearly new/used.
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Michael
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to buy a new car for the experience of getting a specific specification but the depreciation is just immense. I'm looking at options at the moment and can't decided what the best way to finance the things would be. Do you pay outright and blow a hole in your savings or get stung on finance?
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Humphrey The Pug
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
I'd like to buy a new car for the experience of getting a specific specification but the depreciation is just immense. I'm looking at options at the moment and can't decided what the best way to finance the things would be. Do you pay outright and blow a hole in your savings or get stung on finance?


Most manufacturers offer competitive finance rates now on new cars, low APR PCP's or 0% HP so you shouldn't get "stung". I would say financing a new car as opposed to just blowing a wad in one go is a far better proposition financially, even if savings rates are pretty poor, why tie up £15,000 - £20,000 in a depreciating asset when a monthly payment can pay for it and leave your savings intact?


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