The Motor Forum

garry · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: Horse riding vs drug taking

It seems that riding a horse is a higher risk activity that taking ecstasy according to Professor David Nutt. Alan Johnson doesn't agree, and Prof Nutt is sacked.

Call me old fashioned, but when I want fact-based reports about drugs I'd trust an eminent expert in the field writing a peer reviewed paper rather than an ex postman who thinks we revolve around the sun (or the mirror).

Galileo must be spinning in his grave.

DradusContact · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:55 am Post subject:

They cant be seen to be letting up on drugs though. If they turn round and say that actually, exstasy isnt that bad for you consumption will likely jump right up.
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franki68 · Petrolhead Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 2379

Apex clipper · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:07 am Post subject:

"him" · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Horse riding vs drug taking

Apex clipper · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Horse riding vs drug taking

PG · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:21 am Post subject:

Drugs are clearly dangerous, in that studies have shown that cannabis can cause mental issues and so forth, and heroin addicts are hardly pillars of health. I might get killed riding a horse, but simply sitting on a horse won't give me long term health issues.

But as usual the argument gets side-tracked. We have alcohol and tobacco that are legal, taxed and freely available drugs, both of which have health and societal issues, but all the talk about other drugs is just about banning / punishment / though on drugs and so on. Unless we address that issue and move onto legalisation, education and legislation about drugs, we will never solve this hypocritical issue.

Twelfth Monkey · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:23 am Post subject:

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, why bother asking eminent scientists to sit on advisory boards if you've already made up your minds, as so often seems to be the case?
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"Accident Blackspot"? These aren't accidents. They're throwing themselves into the road gladly. Throwing themselves into the road to escape all this hideousness.'

Nice Guy Eddie · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:26 am Post subject:

On a medical position Canabbis should be made legal. I have known people who have smoked for years and have never suffered any mental issues. Those that do I would guess will have always suffered anyway. It turns normal law abiding people into criminals unnecessarily. Having it sat as class C was about right if no intention was there to legalise.
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Mark · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:33 am Post subject:

This is hardly scientific, but people who I know or who I’ve met that admit to having spent meaningful time smoking weed always seem to be a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.

garry · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:39 am Post subject:

I'm convinced that if you lie to kids about drugs you make the problem bigger.

Kids try drugs. If they're told cannabis is really really dangerous, they'll still try it ('cos they're kids and they do things like that). When they work out that they've been lied to (i.e. cannabis is very safe) they'll disregard all goverment drug advice.

TimR · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:40 am Post subject:

I saw a bit of this at the weekend.

I presume the scientist is implying that more people die from horse riding incidents than from the particular drug/drugs he was on about?

If so it might be fair enough but surely there's more implications to the wider consequences of drug use.

For example you don't hear about many people driving a car while being involved in horse riding at the same time and I've never heard of any horse riding types taking to a life of crime to feed their habit.

It seems to me that drug taking in general has a much greater negative impact to other people than horse riding.

Humphrey The Pug · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:41 am Post subject:

"him" · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:43 am Post subject:

Mike Amos · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:55 am Post subject:

I suppose it's a little too late to say the problem is those who cannot scratch without drawing blood. Not having tried any of these things (well, alcohol obviously enough, like most of us), I see the problem being too much consumption rather than ANY consumption.

I was often labelled as an alcoholic because I might have a beer of an evening, even if Sally (my then wife) was not going to have a tipple. She was from a very strict church upbringing tho'.

Fags and booze will not be on the agenda as far as I can see because a, too many mp's enjoy these things and b, they bring in far too much by way of taxation. Unlike Ireland, the church does not have enough clout to make any meaningful impact either way.
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Politicians. Would a career specialist by any other name carry such a putrid stench?

woof woof · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject:

"This is hardly scientific, but people who I know or who I’ve met that admit to having spent meaningful time smoking weed always seem to be a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic."

Yup. It's amazing how many people who insist that cannabis has never done them any harm can't complete a sentence never mind string a few together.
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woof woof's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."

Confucius says "all reckless speeding is caused by accidents."

garry · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:10 pm Post subject:

woof woof · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject:

If these drugs pose little danger is it just a co-incidence that so many useless wastes of space and so many of the bad lads around who are committing crimes do? Maybe drugs just attract the lazy, dim, anti social and violent bastards that are no use to society?
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woof woof's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."

Confucius says "all reckless speeding is caused by accidents."

GonnaBreakABuggy · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:33 pm Post subject:

Last time I checked, so does alcohol + tobbaco.
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*Innocent Whistle*

TimR · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:49 pm Post subject:

Skyhook · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject:

Mark · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject:

Twelfth Monkey · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject:

Equally anecdotally, long-term cannabis use did seem to change the personalities of a couple of people I knew.
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"Accident Blackspot"? These aren't accidents. They're throwing themselves into the road gladly. Throwing themselves into the road to escape all this hideousness.'

Boxer6 · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:17 pm Post subject:

Mark · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject:

Skyhook · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject:

Skyhook · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject:

Mark · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:16 pm Post subject:

ALF · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject:

Don't you lot start - my wife has been moaning about the comparison with horse riding all day!

Scouse · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject:

woof woof · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:38 pm Post subject:

Well...a woman I knew years ago fell off a horse and broke her neck but being a hard northern lass (and the owner of one of the best arses I've ever seen...) she just got up and walked home.

Horse riding can give a woman wonderful thighs and a great arse, things that taking drugs never does.

I think I've won the argument. Horse riding is good, drugs are bad.
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woof woof's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."

Confucius says "all reckless speeding is caused by accidents."

garry · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject:

I feel like I've logged onto a Daily Mail forum! Good to know no-ones letting the facts get in the way...

Apex clipper · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject:

"him" · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject:

Some perspective...

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Remember - A gym without chalk is a heath spa...

Apex clipper · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject:

Giant · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject:

Regardless of our own anecdotes, how can the government employ experts on subjects such as drugs then sack them if their scientific research doesn't give the results to match the governments less than informed opinions? I think it is utterly scandalous, but completly unsurprising.

Frank Bullitt · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:34 pm Post subject:

It is quite curious how an open discussion on drugs seems to still be utterly taboo - even hint that all people who take drugs aren't crazed criminals with depraved lives destroyed by the very evil of society (TM Daily Fascist) marks you out as fair game for some serious examination by the press.

It seems facts are indeed unwelcome.
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Shame your mind don't shine like your possessions

DarthBalls · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:40 pm Post subject:

In a previous job I met a university lecturer who, along with his was supervisor, was subjected to sanctions from a national funding body and pilloried in the press for publishing the results of a study showing that some people can actually use heroin and hold down a jobs and that there are people who can use it recreationally.
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It's so cold right now that I'm thinking of catching gonorrhoea just for the burning sensation.

PG · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:55 pm Post subject:

We need to think laterally. I don't know what the annual revenue of the drug trade is in the UK, but imagine 17.5% VAT and some form of duty on that lot. The NHS already treats those for whom taking drugs has gone wrong, so it's a win-win.

garry · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:18 pm Post subject:

woof woof · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:21 pm Post subject:

The question I keep coming back to is why take drugs?

We've probably all known people who've been adversely affected by recreational drugs and we've all read and heard horror stories like those on radio 2 today. Just as with smoking tobacco and links to disease there may not ever be any true irrefutable and absolute facts that aren't questioned and argued but despite there being no clear agreement I don't believe that anyone can really if they're being honest with themselves think anything other than taking recreational drugs is at best a huge game of Russian roulette.

I haven't got an addictive personality but I think that I can see how rebellion, inner doubts, troubles or peer pressure might push a person towards recreational drugs, I find the actions of superficially more successful and balanced people who take drugs harder to understand.

As with tobacco despite the arguments we must all by now know that it's highly likely that there are risks so why take drugs? "Just say no" seems pretty good to me.
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woof woof's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."

Confucius says "all reckless speeding is caused by accidents."

garry · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:51 pm Post subject:

So Alan, I guess if you were offered 10 laps of the nurburgring in the car of your choice you'd decline? Statistically moe dangerous than ecstasy....

Point is, risk is part of life. I'm sure you're not advocating a life with no risk - that would be terribly dull.

You say taking recreational drugs is at best a huge game of russian roulette. That's really the whole point - the evidence (note; not anecdotes or scare stories on radio 2) says it's not risky.

So, why take drugs? For me it would be the same reasons that i drink alcohol, drive too fast, climb mountains, sail boats. All have risk, I enjoy them all and I'm willing to take the risks involved.

SpecB · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:05 am Post subject:

The whole point of taking risk - or at least the way I look at it - is the reward.

To take the thread title literally, I love riding and it is a calculated risk every time I get on horse but with an element of unknown. If I do a competition then the adrenaline rush at the end is great and that is the best free, legal drug in the world.

I also like booze - in a different way - I find it relaxing but I can quite happily go out and not drink and if I don't have a drink in a while then that's fine.

The problem with illegal drugs is that some people seem to need them more and more and become dependent in a far more serious manner than they do to alcohol for example. I am not saying this is totally correct but I think that some people have dependent tendencies more than other people and that the effects of any drug is different for everyone. Not everyone is an alcoholic.

Some people may be able to smoke weed quite happily without it causing an adverse affect but that doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. The same goes for alcohol, cigarettes etc. Some people I know have smoked for years with no problem and the cause of their death hasn't been cigarettes so they may say they aren't dangerous.

What it boils down to is that nobody knows what sort of long term effect there is as it hasn't been studied long enough and not enough people admit to being regular users.

Comparing smoking weed to getting on a not entirely predictable semi domesticated animal is nonsense - it can be dangerous while your'e engaged in it but once you stop the danger is over and the risk has stopped.
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Mark

woof woof · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:35 am Post subject:

garry "(note; not anecdotes or scare stories on radio 2)"

I don't think for one minute that the parents interviewed on R2 today were lying, I'm convinced of their honesty and that their children's lives were badly affected by drugs. I don't believe that drugs are safe as drugs being safe doesn't fit at all with what I've seen for myself. What I've seen for myself is people not functioning how I'd expect them too, not being able to concentrate, not being able to hold a conversation, basically functioning less well than the ESN I used to help out with, others like my ex's son, paranoid and tormented by voices I can't hear. I just can't see it as a risk worth taking.
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woof woof's defence lawyer claimed that "Booze played no part in his typo's."

Confucius says "all reckless speeding is caused by accidents."

Skyhook · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:00 am Post subject:

Frank Bullitt · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:24 am Post subject:

DB · Running In Joined: 06 Jan 2007 Posts: 71

I tend to think that the government policy on this is correct. The risks for certain illegal drugs maybe no greater than a range of legal activities. However given the issues that exist with abuse of legal substances such as alcohol, would it be a good idea to increase the range of substances available.

Remember alcohol it is not just damaging the full blown alcoholics, but there are many more who binge, or just drink more than they should that we suffer long term health problems as a result.

The governement know that it is far easier to keep something illegal, than to outlaw something. So in this regard I can see the logic.

garry · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:21 am Post subject:

garry · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:43 am Post subject:

"him" · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:49 am Post subject: