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F1 game 2016 - Mexico

 
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:20 pm    Post subject: F1 game 2016 - Mexico  Reply with quote

Just a week after the last race, the circus moves slightly south for the next round.
Usual guesses required; bonus question:
How many cars will complete the full race distance?
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers Chris. Here are the standings and scores after the USA GP:

USA:
JohnC - 14
Sav - 11
Chris M - 8
Big Blue - 7 (bonus winner)
Ben - 7
PhilD - 5

Deemed (5) - Scouse, Eff One, the other ct, Dr H, Humphrey

Overall:
Sav - 178
Chris M - 165
JohnC - 144
Eff One - 142
Phil D - 142
Big Blue - 135
the other ct - 134
BeN - 120
Scouse - 119
Humphrey - 109
Dr H - 94
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JohnC
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Hamilton
Fastest: Hamilton
Bonus: 18

1) Hamilton
2) Rosberg
3) Vettel
4) Ricciardo
5) Raikonnen
6) Verstappen
7) Perez
8) Bottas
9) Hulkenberg
10) Alonso
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole - Rosberg
F/L - Hamilton
Bonus - 16

1) Rosberg
2) Hamilton
3) Vettel
4) Ricciardo
5) Raikkonen
6) Bottas
7) Verstappen
8) Massa
9) Alonso
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Hamilton
F/L: Vettel (he's had the last 2)
Bonus: 7

1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg
3. Vettel
4. RšikkŲnen
6. Perez
7. Verstappen
8. Alonso
9. Button
10. Hulkenberg
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full race distance means unlapped at the end, ie how many cars will finish (take the chequered flag) without being lapped
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Hamilton
F/Lap: Hamilton
Bonus: 7

1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg
3. Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Raikkonen
6. Verstappen
7. Bottas
8. Hulkenberg
9. Alonso
10. Button
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Sav
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Hamilton
Fastest lap: Rosberg
Bonus: 16

1. Hamilton
2. Rosberg
3. Ricciardo
4. Vettel
5. Verstappen
6. Raikkonen
7. Hulkenberg
8. Perez
9. Bottas
10. Massa
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Sav
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some strange proceedings this weekend. Firstly, the Red Bull really does look out of sorts. Itís almost like a street track with almost every corner exit being a traction zone, but the Red Bull looks loose on exit when this wasnít the case at Monaco or Singapore.

The esses are such a telling part of the lap. The continuous nature of the esses means that turns 8, 9 and 10 are taken at a tight angle. It puts a premium on a keen front-end and also traction, the latter being because the driver has to accelerate at a tighter angle and that overworks the rear tyres. The Merc looks so sweet through there with Hamilton driving. Thereís just a hint of oversteer, but the turn-in looks tremendous. This is where it goes wrong for others including even Rosberg; they carry excess understeer on entry and that quickly becomes costly exit oversteer.

Raikkonen is finding form at present. He looks more confident in the car in qualifying, which is important because this is the area he has struggled in since 2014. In contrast Vettel is making a few small but significant errors, and the highest paid driver on the grid sounds pissed off seemingly every time he takes to the circuit. I believe the 2017 regulations will suit Raikkonen nicely.

Hulkenberg might be leaving Force India, but heís coming of age. He out-qualified both Ferrariís, and when one considers that Perez is back in 12th, it was a truly fantastic qualifying. Saying that, the fragility of the super soft tyre means that heíll most likely need to pit after a few laps, and consequently be behind Perez. Perez will no doubt start the race on a fresh and more durable compound because he has free choice of tyre, having failed to make Q3, and will be able to run longer.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Vettel was reported, some months back, as not liking the characteristics of the 2016 Ferrari, hence his frequent winges, making excuses when crashing/going off-circuit, and being out-driven by Kimi on numerous occasions this year
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This dire season seems to be reaching a suitably dire climax - Rosberg finishes second in the last three races, and becomes the least deserving champion since Villeneuve. Wake me up when F1 becomes watchable again ...
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Sav
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you missed the wrong Grand Prix tonight, Doc, it was pretty good.

Thank you to Pirelli for providing tyres with enough degradation to create differing strategic options. Some will call it trundling around; I call it racing as opposed to having virtually none.

Verstappen v Vettel. Goodness, I havenít seen a properly angry Grand Prix driver in years. Probably not since Alonso and Massa swore at each other in Spanish at the 2007 European Grand Prix. I can understand it from both points of view. Verstappen was locked up and out of control; had he tried to brake harder and only use the asphalt run-off, he might have spun out. Indeed, that was what happened to Verstappen against Rosberg in turn 4; it was a low-percentage move with how acute he entered, that locked the rears and Rosberg swiftly repassed him. On the other hand, it was a competitive situation and Verstappen was under pressure from Vettel (unlike Hamilton at turn 1), and it could be legitimately argued that Verstappen gained an advantage from going off.

Vettel has a lot to answer for with his swerving against Ricciardo in turn 4. Just as Ricciardo got his right front wheel alongside Vettelís rear left, Vettel suddenly changed his line and crowded Ricciardo towards the inside. Ricciardo did a fantastic job to firstly not torpedo into the side of Vettel, and secondly not to outbrake himself because Vettel changed his line so suddenly. IMO, Ricciardo had every right to ram Vettel off the track at that point. The rules have been clarified regarding moving around under braking, and using that as a yardstick, Vettel should be penalised.

Iím not a fan of penalties, but the responsibility of the lead car must be taken more into account in stewarding decisions if penalties must continue. Too often the mere fact that someone has been tipped into a spin is the decisive factor, but why was that driver tipped into a spin? The pursuing driver shouldnít automatically be seen as the guilty party.

Bizarre podium proceedings, spicy racing and some pissed off drivers. I call that a pretty damn good race!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Vettel's behaviour was a disgrace - Verstappen could have been seen as gaining an advantage but that is a decision for stewards to make and penalise accordingly, instead Vettel in shear panic at having Ricardo breathing down his neck went on to bring the sport into disrepute, rather than realising the Red Bull was on the ragged edge and some concentrated effort would probably have succeeded in a proper overtake rather than having it handed on a plate.

From Verstappen's perspective, either hold the place and keep the chance of 3rd or be busted 5 seconds down to 5th after steward intervention or give up the place (which you may never have needed to having not actually gained a material advantage), go to 4th and get told Ricardo is the quickest driver.

No, Vettle let himself and his sport down.
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gooner
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with FB on that one. Verstappen was right to hold on as he may have gotten away with it so there was no need to just hand the position to Vettel, especially as Vettel wasn't actually overtaking him at the time.

I felt sorry for Max that his race ended as it did as it was a pretty solid performance. I thought his inexperience let him down against Rosberg and he probably went for the overtake a corner or two early whereas one of the more experienced drivers would have waited and gotten past in the next DRS zone. I can't blame him for seeing the opportunity and going for it though.
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Nice Guy Eddie
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vettels defence was fan bloody tastic. He'd given Ricciardo more than a cars width throughout the turn and Broke in a straight line. If you can't do that, we might as well give up with the racing. His language was hysterical, it even got the missus watching it.

"Yeah I've got a message for Charlie, tell him to fuck off"
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Sav
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I donít agree. Vettel only suddenly moved further to the right as soon as Ricciardoís right front was alongside Vettelís rear left. Letís just imagine that the wheels had tangled and Vettel was sent airborne, whoís fault would that have been? If Vettel wanted to defend, he should have taken the left side of the track to defend and stayed there. With the closing speeds with open wheel cars, this is even more imperative - the pursuing driver simply hasnít got time to adjust his line and react to someone deviating about. Look what happened at Melbourne with Alonso, ever so-slightly the Haas moved under braking, and Alonso was launched into the air.

I now see Vettel is complaining about Ricciardo and saying it was one his usual optimistic moves. How bizarre; Vettel initially left the inside for Ricciardo, but decided to half-heartedly defend and squeeze him to the inside. If you donít defend properly in time, tough luck, this cheap swerving is unacceptable for me.

Truly and honestly, Iím all for hard racing. Iím the one usually complaining at the level of penalties and am advocating the drivers to race it out and deal with incidents themselves. However, this European blocking and chopping isnít real racing, it isnít skillful and itís bloody dangerous.

It was quite telling what Hamilton said a few days ago and his experience of racing Michael Schumacher between 2010 and 2012. He was saying that Schumacher was consistent in his defending and would concede the inside if you were partly alongside. It speaks volumes when Schumi, not exactly known for being a fluffy kitten when defending is thought to be fairer than some of the newer drivers. I remember this well. In the 2010 Monaco GP and the 2011 Chinese GP both drivers raced very aggressively, but there was none of the stupid blocking and sudden chopping at the last second.
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Sav
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:

I felt sorry for Max that his race ended as it did as it was a pretty solid performance. I thought his inexperience let him down against Rosberg and he probably went for the overtake a corner or two early whereas one of the more experienced drivers would have waited and gotten past in the next DRS zone. I can't blame him for seeing the opportunity and going for it though.


I respect Verstappen trying to pass Rosberg in turn 4. He absolutely had to take that opportunity. Rosberg had overshot turn 1, and that left him compromised in the rest of the chicane. That gave Max a fantastic run onto the straight with DRS and into turn 4. Because he had older tyres than Rosberg at that stage, he had to try and capitalise on Rosbergís mistake.
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Nice Guy Eddie
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're fully committed under breaking just try and swerve. You can make one move before you put the wheel back to 12 o'clock to apply maximum stopping power. It's what I saw from vettel. The driving between both parties was first rate. Yes it could have ended in disaster but it didn't because they're the best in the world. If it was me driving I'd have wiped Vettel out but then I'm not paid multi millions per year and that's the difference.

Don't get me started on that halo thing that they bolted onto the Sauber in practice. Put that Mickey Mouse shit on the cars and that's it for me and F1
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Sav
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I said, Ricciardoís reaction and braking was incredible. Heís known for having a deft touch on the brakes, he sure needed to all his skills to avoid sphering into Vettel. I still donít agree with Vettelís driving, but Ricciardo had it locked up, but not to the point of actually forcing Vettel off the track. Considering he was on the dirty side of the track as well, it was impressive.

The rules regarding blocking have been clear for years, but further strengthened before Austin last week Ė one move under braking. Now, I donít mind a little gamesmanship. And I seriously donít expect every little tiny move to be penalised. Again, Iím all for hard racing. However, some of the recent blocking concerns me Ė it goes beyond what is usually considered as acceptable. As Alonso illustrated back in Melbourne, you can be the absolute superstar he is, but even the best canít necessarily react to someone suddenly swerving under braking with the closing speeds.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only saw one move. he broke in a straight line and that line was to finish a cars width from the apex. Spot on driving. What is this swerving thing, if you put steering lock in your gonna lock up the lesser loaded tyre. Vettels didn't do this.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I respect the view that Seb moved but there was no way on earth Ricciardo was going to make it past him on the next turn as it was Seb that was in the right place. The day drivers just give a place up is the day they take the job driving the safety car / team truck.

Verstappen has been asking for a kicking all season.
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Sav
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice Guy Eddie wrote:
I only saw one move. he broke in a straight line and that line was to finish a cars width from the apex. Spot on driving. What is this swerving thing, if you put steering lock in your gonna lock up the lesser loaded tyre. Vettels didn't do this.


I saw two. Vettel first moved gingerly moved across slightly, but then decided to do a Verstappen and move further across to the left just as Ricciardo was getting in a position to be partly inside. Itís this reactionary blocking as soon as the pursuing driver takes a lunge to the inside that I most have issue with.

Iím in no way advocating drivers just roll over as soon as something appears in the mirrors. Absolutely not. However, there is a difference between effective but fair defending and blocking every which way as soon as the pursuing car draws almost alongside. If Vettel wanted to defend, he should have taken to the left in the first place. That would have firstly forced Ricciardo to take the long way around, and secondly it would have been safer for Vettel. If Ricciardo had even taken another few mph in there, he would have spun Vettel around.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, after all that Vettel gets a 10sec penalty (drops him to 5th) so Ricciardo is the 3rd driver to be 3rd, which secures him 3rd place in the Championship.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to see Vettel and Verstappen challenge each other in a one-on-one race. No holds barred, proper old school duel.

That'll be fun.
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Chris M Wanted a V-10
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin wrote:
Well, after all that Vettel gets a 10sec penalty (drops him to 5th) so Ricciardo is the 3rd driver to be 3rd, which secures him 3rd place in the Championship.


The answer to the bonus question appears to be 10, who got third place has been a little harder to resolve !
Last I saw yesterday, Verstappen had been demoted and Vettel awarded third but, as Martin says above, this morning I heard on the radio that Vettel was subsequently penalised and demoted to 5th.

F1 circus indeed - full of clowns !
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BeN wrote:
I would love to see Vettel and Verstappen challenge each other in a one-on-one race. No holds barred, proper old school duel.

That'll be fun.


I'd love to see them have an off together whilst battling and then see a proper fight between them both; I can actually see that happening too.
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Big Blue
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vettel is German; Verstappen is Dutch. No love lost there.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vettel just comes across to me as someone looking for any excuse to blame someone else for his lack of success. His car isn't the fastest but it is close and instead of being positive about developing the car to become faster and playing his part, he has tantrums every now and then. Perhaps he has been warned that he might lose his seat if he doesn't do better and the pressure is getting to him.

I too thought Vettel had moved a second time to squeeze Ricciardo and that Ricciardo did an exceptional job of not hitting him. In my mind it was borderline acceptable. I also don't think Verstappen should have had a penalty because Vettel wasn't overtaking him at the time.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd be mad to have a fight with Verstappen. The entire pits would be taken over by his extended family and the paddock club would resemble the Appleby Horse Fair.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sav wrote:
It speaks volumes when Schumi, not exactly known for being a fluffy kitten when defending is thought to be fairer than some of the newer drivers.


You're right but the cause of the current perceived unfairness is a direct result of the failure to deal with Schumi 'properly' at the time.

If you think back to incidents like the Spa one when he ran into the back of Coulthard and then went mental at DC I don't remember him being sanctioned in any way but it's a small example of letting the standards slide.

Lets not forget Jerez in 1997 either, what did that teach anyone, especially the latest crop of youngsters who weren't even born then!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnC wrote:
Vettel just comes across to me as someone looking for any excuse to blame someone else for his lack of success. His car isn't the fastest but it is close and instead of being positive about developing the car to become faster and playing his part, he has tantrums every now and then. Perhaps he has been warned that he might lose his seat if he doesn't do better and the pressure is getting to him.

I too thought Vettel had moved a second time to squeeze Ricciardo and that Ricciardo did an exceptional job of not hitting him. In my mind it was borderline acceptable. I also don't think Verstappen should have had a penalty because Vettel wasn't overtaking him at the time.


Vettel has always been a childish wanker. Think of all the incidents he had at Red Bull.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sav wrote:
I think you missed the wrong Grand Prix tonight, Doc, it was pretty good.

Didn't sound like it, from what I've read. First and second places decided after the first corner, and a lot of frankly poor behaviour behind them. Until such time as somebody can offer Mercedes some real opposition, F1 is circling the drain ...

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