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F1 Game 2016 - Spain

 
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 6:26 pm    Post subject: F1 Game 2016 - Spain  Reply with quote

First European race coming with less of a gap than usual, but the teams may still have some upgrades. As usual, you need to predict the top ten finishers, and who gets pole and fastest lap, and answer the bonus question:

What will be the gap at the end of the race between first Mercedes and first non-Mercedes? Use minus if you think a Mercedes won't win. One point for the nearest.

Deadline: Friday 13 May 2359 GMT


Last edited by Dr. Hfuhruhurr on Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My prediction, in case I have another brain fart/lack of internet access before the race

Pole/lap Hamilton
Bonus 3.742 seconds

1 Hamilton
2 Rosberg
3 Vettel
4 Massa
5 Bottas
6 Raikkonen
7 Ricciardo
8 Kyatchoo
9 Alonso
10 Button
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Rosberg
F/L: Raikkonen
Bonus: -6s

1. Raikkonen
2. Hamilton
3. Rosberg
4. Vettel
5. Sainz (loving the fact he's ahead of both RBs today)
6. Ricciardo
7. Verstappen
8. Bottas
9. Massa
10. Alonso

Provided Kimi and Vettel get a good launch and make it through the first turn this race could be a zinger.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Hamilton
F/L: Hamilton
Bonus: 4.232 seconds

1. Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Raikkonen
4. Ricciardo
5. Sainz
6. Bottas
7. Hulkenberg
8. Verstappen
9. Perez
10. Button
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Hamilton
F/L: Hamilton
Bonus: 11:01

1. Hamilton
2. Raikkonen
3. Vettel
4. Rosberg
5. Massa
6. Kvyat
7. Ricciardo
8. Hulkenberg
9. Button
10. Ricciardo
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Rosberg
F/L: Rosberg
Bonus: 12.983 seconds

1. Rosberg
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Raikkonen
6. Bottas
7. Verstappen
8. Hulkenberg
9. Sainz
10.Alonso
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Hamilton
Fastest: Vettel
Bonus: 7

1) Rosberg
2) Hamilton
3) Vettel
4) Raikkonen
5) Bottas
6) Sainz
7) Alonso
8) Riccardo
9) Hulkenberg
10) Gutiérrez
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Rosberg
Fastest: Rosberg
Bonus: 14.7

1) Rosberg
2) Hamilton
3) Vettel
4) Massa
5) Bottas
6) Raikonen
7) Button
8) Riccardo
9) Verstappen
10) Sainz
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Rosberg
F/Lap: Vettel
Bonus: 22.1 seconds

1. Rosberg
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Raikkonen
6. Verstappen
7. Bottas
8. Sainz
9. Massa
10. Alonso
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole - Rosberg
F/L - Hamilton
Bonus - 6 seconds

1) Rosberg
2) Hamilton
3) Vettel
4) Ricciardo
5) Raikkonen
6) Bottas
7) Kvyat
8) Massa
9) Alonso
10) Button
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole: Rosberg
Fastest lap: Hamilton
Bonus: 13 seconds

1. Rosberg
2. Vettel
3. Hamilton
4. Raikkonen
5. Ricciardo
6. Sainz
7. Verstappen
8. Kvyat
9. Bottas
10. Alonso
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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope I'm not too late...

1) Rosberg
2) Hamilton
3) Vettel
4) Ricciardo
5) Kyvat (that'll show 'em...)
6) Verstappen
7) Raikkonen
8) Sainz
9) Bottas
10) Alonso

Pole: Rosberg
Fastest: Rosberg
Bonus: 21 seconds
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just realised this go is on Channel 4, turned on just in time for the start. Glad I did!

Hahahahahahaha!!
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet no one predicted that winner!
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simonp wrote:
I bet no one predicted that winner!


Indeed. Nobody saw that coming!
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BeN wrote:
simonp wrote:
I bet no one predicted that winner!


Indeed. Nobody saw that coming!


Da Ham and Nico taking each other off (at some point) is predictable but a driver on P plates winning, not so much!
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the contact between Hamilton and Rosberg, at turn 1 that kind of contact has happened numerous times with heaviness of the braking zone, however, one just doesn’t expect that kind of collision into turn 4. On initial replays it wasn’t clear who was at fault, or whether it was a ‘racing incident’ with no blame on either side. I now deem Rosberg to be at fault, but not for so obvious reasons. During turn 3 it appears that Rosberg mistakenly puts his car into an energy-harvesting mode with the MGU-H, which slows the car considerably – evidence of this can be seen by the rain light flashing.

Hamilton didn’t energy harvest during the middle of turn 3, which was why Hamilton closed so significantly on Rosberg on the short straight between turns 3 and 4. On the exit of turn 3 Rosberg adjusts a setting on his steering wheel that stops him energy saving, but by that stage it was too late, Hamilton got a great launch off turn 3, and you know what happens next…

I blame Rosberg because Hamilton had his wing and left front wheel alongside Rosberg’s right rear wheel. The regulations say that a significant proportion of the car has to be alongside another, and I believe the extent that Hamilton was alongside Rosberg satisfies that regulation.

At present I take issue with the chopping and blocking in various single seater categories. Just this morning in GP2 something similar happened between Sean Gelael and Antonio Giovinazzi in Barcelona. On entry to turn 10 Giovinazzi went to the inside, only for Gelael to block when it was too late, that sent Giovinazzi airborne, onto the grass and he tagged someone separate who was negotiating turn 10, then Giovinazzi slammed hard into the outside barrier. It was a scary shunt but could have been a lot worse.

Last year a European F3 race at Monza was actually cancelled because there was so much blocking and chopping in the opening race, again involving the lead car putting the other in the dirt. I want to see feisty driving and fantastic racing, but I believe this will still happen if drivers stop putting others in incredibly dangerous scenario’s entering braking zones. It is not to say that accidents don’t happen on IndyCar road course events, but there is a rule that requires the lead car to only make one defensive move under braking, and the lead driver can’t then block again. I really wish this rule was used in European-based single seater racing.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sav wrote:
On initial replays it wasn’t clear who was at fault, or whether it was a ‘racing incident’ with no blame on either side. I now deem Rosberg to be at fault, but not for so obvious reasons. During turn 3 it appears that Rosberg mistakenly puts his car into an energy-harvesting mode with the MGU-H, which slows the car considerably – evidence of this can be seen by the rain light flashing

I don't have Sky but I watched a clip on YouTube last night with their Antony Davidson going through the whole start-to-crash episode in minute detail  Rosberg had a different engine mode (to Hamilton) set from the start - energy harvesting, maybe he forgot to turn it off before the start?  He appears to be adjusting something on the wheel when Hamilton starts to draw alongside him - maybe he wasn't looking in his mirrors at the time as he was looking at his steering wheel? Whatever, he effectively forces Hamilton off the track; Hamilton saw a gap, was much faster at that time and went for it, only to find Rosberg moved into his path.  Racing incident.

Good on Mercedes for saying that they still won't introduce team orders and will leave the drivers free to race each other; I just hope that they mean it !

EDIT: Of course, if Hamilton had made a great start snd gone scampering off into the distance, this wouldn't have happened. How many bad starts has Hamilton made this year ????
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Sav that Rosberg moved over at the point at which it was too late to avoid a collision. Hamilton did all he could to avoid a collision by moving to the grass which then took both of them out.

I reckon the stewards didn't feel it was their place to apportion blame in such a fragile team situation which is why they took the easy way out: they would know that the inner team fight and repercussions were something they would not want to influence or be contradicted on.

After making his mistake with his car's setting, Rosberg adopted the middle of the road position which is where he should have stayed, or alternatively he could have taken the inside line earlier.

I'm no great Hamilton fan but nose chopping like that is not fair racing.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure it was a bad start or if Rosberg just managed to draft him into T1
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Racing incident that would never have occurred if Hamilton hadn't got red mist after seeing his pole slip away and if Rosberg hadn't pissed his settings up into turn 3.

What it did do was show us what a great season up front we'd be having if the Mercedes were taken out of the equation.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with Lauda

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formul...ish-grand-prix-crash-with-nico-r/

Though I've not actually seen the incident  
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Blue wrote:
Racing incident that would never have occurred if Hamilton hadn't got red mist after seeing his pole slip away and if Rosberg hadn't pissed his settings up into turn 3.

What it did do was show us what a great season up front we'd be having if the Mercedes were taken out of the equation.


This.
Not being a big fan of either Rosberg or Hamiltonsulkypants, I have to say that Rosberg's move around the outside was a thing of beauty.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scouse wrote:
Big Blue wrote:
Racing incident that would never have occurred if Hamilton hadn't got red mist after seeing his pole slip away and if Rosberg hadn't pissed his settings up into turn 3.

What it did do was show us what a great season up front we'd be having if the Mercedes were taken out of the equation.


This.
Not being a big fan of either Rosberg or Hamiltonsulkypants, I have to say that Rosberg's move around the outside was a thing of beauty.


Wasn't this the case when Red Bull were out front? And before them when Ferrari dominated?
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gooner wrote:
Scouse wrote:
Big Blue wrote:
Racing incident that would never have occurred if Hamilton hadn't got red mist after seeing his pole slip away and if Rosberg hadn't pissed his settings up into turn 3.

What it did do was show us what a great season up front we'd be having if the Mercedes were taken out of the equation.


This.
Not being a big fan of either Rosberg or Hamiltonsulkypants, I have to say that Rosberg's move around the outside was a thing of beauty.


Wasn't this the case when Red Bull were out front? And before them when Ferrari dominated?


Sav will be able to let us know, but it does feel like there are generally long periods where one team is head and shoulders above everyone else and there are two or three teams competing for 3rd.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First race I've watched Live in full this year, and a cracker!

Sadly it is often the case that there is a lead team well out front, and a chasing pack all close together. Take out the lead team and its a great race.

I had a feeling there might be first-lap issues between Hamilton and Rosberg, there was just too much pent-up feeling with Hamilton's poor year. Hamilton seemed to go far too cautious on the inside line and just let Rosberg drive around him without even locking up. Odd. From then it was 50/50 really, it was no overtaking spot but he was alongside, I expect Rosberg just did not realise the speed differential, and possibly didn't see him. The only thing which makes it possibly more a Rosberg fault is the engine map thing, if he was in the wrong map and was much slower, he must have expected a big speed differential...

Patience was never a Lewis virtue - but then in this instance had he pulled back, he would have finished second to Rosberg's first, which he can't allow.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I think it does show is how stupid the tech has become if the accident was effectively caused by Rosberg pressing the wrong button on his steering wheel.
It makes them sound like all those Fiat 500 driving bimbos who're too busy with their in-car-tech (mobile phone) than actually watching where they're going.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
What I think it does show is how stupid the tech has become if the accident was effectively caused by Rosberg pressing the wrong button on his steering wheel.


How is that different from a fluffed (old skool) gear change for example?
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris M Wanted a V-10 wrote:
Sav wrote:
On initial replays it wasn’t clear who was at fault, or whether it was a ‘racing incident’ with no blame on either side. I now deem Rosberg to be at fault, but not for so obvious reasons. During turn 3 it appears that Rosberg mistakenly puts his car into an energy-harvesting mode with the MGU-H, which slows the car considerably – evidence of this can be seen by the rain light flashing

I don't have Sky but I watched a clip on YouTube last night with their Antony Davidson going through the whole start-to-crash episode in minute detail  Rosberg had a different engine mode (to Hamilton) set from the start - energy harvesting, maybe he forgot to turn it off before the start?  He appears to be adjusting something on the wheel when Hamilton starts to draw alongside him - maybe he wasn't looking in his mirrors at the time as he was looking at his steering wheel? Whatever, he effectively forces Hamilton off the track; Hamilton saw a gap, was much faster at that time and went for it, only to find Rosberg moved into his path.  Racing incident.

Good on Mercedes for saying that they still won't introduce team orders and will leave the drivers free to race each other; I just hope that they mean it !

EDIT: Of course, if Hamilton had made a great start snd gone scampering off into the distance, this wouldn't have happened. How many bad starts has Hamilton made this year ????


I did indeed see Antony Davidson’s excellent analysis of the collision between the Mercedes duo. Davidson was insightful and astute as ever, he is Mercedes’ simulator driver and it really showed. Davidson was delving into a fact I’ve known for a few years now, both drivers use fairly different steering wheel configurations. So the same harvesting button on Rosberg’s wheel is not in the same place as Hamilton’s.

Davidson is one of the outstanding motorsport announcers and Brundle was for whatever unable to commentate, Davidson would be a brilliant replacement. Davidson would be a great replacement for Brundle at the European Grand Prix, the latter will compete at a Le Mans support race which clashes with the F1…oh wait, Davidson will be racing at Le Mans as well!

Initially people did think that Rosberg could have been mentally maxed out after muddling his ERS modes, Davidson also suggested this. However, Rosberg’s statement afterwards suggested something different, he appeared to state he knew where Hamilton was and realised the closing rate.

I think the starts of these races will continue to surprise with the revised procedure. The two-lever system was banned, something that the drivers got accustomed to for years. The drivers now only have one lever to release, with no radio communication allowed on the formation lap launch. It’s an incredibly fine tolerance because the travel between the lever is so minute. I predict many drivers will fluff the start in future races.

Hamilton actually got a decent start, but so did Rosberg, and the run down to turn 1 is one of the longest on the calendar, and this allowed Rosberg to get the perfect sliptstream. I don’t think Hamilton had a choice to yield with Rosberg next to him, Hamilton not only had to brake earlier due to being on the dirtier side, he had to turn into and accelerate out of the turn 1 at a more acute angle compared to Rosberg, and that small delay is what allowed Rosberg past. If Hamilton had deliberately braked later and locked the inside front, that would have risked running into Rosberg, who was alongside at the point of turn-in.

Ever since the outside of turn was paved with asphalt, it has seemingly given drivers added confidence to try the outside of turn 1, knowing that they have run-off to use if the move doesn’t pay off. I don’t remember the outside of turn 1 really being a place to overtake pre-2008, ever since it has become a popular move across different categories since that gravel trap was mostly removed. Before it was a case of potentially skating off in the gravel, now the attacking driver can lose nothing in track position.

I’m glad the stewards didn’t dish out penalties. I think they were right; both drivers had a reasonably strong case to make in light of the current reglations. Neither driver was idiotic, but I do believe Rosberg was more to blame for reasons explained. I’m a fan of the stewards staying out of incidents on the track where possible. Across European-based single seater racing there is too much blocking and chopping, and I believe racing would still be fiercely contested without it.

IndyCar road course races have plenty of defending, but it doesn’t have the abrupt nature seen in Europe. I believe it aids the racing, if the driver on the offensive wants to pass on the inside, there is every chance that driver will go in too deep, and the other driver then crosses over to regain the place. That to me is good racing. V8 Supercars has a code between drivers. You’ll see them defend but only in a very subtle fashion, if the driver behind is faster, heavy blocking is frowned upon and those guys have bumpers to use to voice displeasure, and it’s an etiquette that is self-policed rather than the stewards intervening.

I’m not asking for drivers to pull over when a car comes up behind, but in particular the IndyCar one-block rule needs to be common place in Europe. I don't even expect that to be fully followed, because again it would be open to subjective interpretation. However, something needs to be done in light of the chopping in European single seater racing, and at least that rule would hopefully start to establish a standard of what is acceptable.
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilD wrote:
gooner wrote:
Scouse wrote:
Big Blue wrote:
Racing incident that would never have occurred if Hamilton hadn't got red mist after seeing his pole slip away and if Rosberg hadn't pissed his settings up into turn 3.

What it did do was show us what a great season up front we'd be having if the Mercedes were taken out of the equation.


This.
Not being a big fan of either Rosberg or Hamiltonsulkypants, I have to say that Rosberg's move around the outside was a thing of beauty.


Wasn't this the case when Red Bull were out front? And before them when Ferrari dominated?


Sav will be able to let us know, but it does feel like there are generally long periods where one team is head and shoulders above everyone else and there are two or three teams competing for 3rd.


You are right. We’ve seen Williams, McLaren, Ferrari, Red Bull and now Mercedes dominate during a particular eras of regulations. What separates Mercedes and their domination is the sheer completeness of the car. Even during the Ferrari domination in the early 2000’s, in some races other cars were simply better, and in 2003 there was a genuine battle for the title – that was mainly tyre influenced. In 1998 Ferrari gave McLaren a hard time, even though McLaren had the faster car in the majority of races.

The Mercedes has no weakness. As an example, between 2010-2013 Red Bull prioritised downforce over overall aerodynamic efficiency. They mostly got that prioritisation correct, and they were only significantly compromised at Spa and Monza at times. With a less powerful customer Renault engine, they knew it was best to focus on the areas they could control, and the straight-line speed deficit was easily offset by the greater cornering abilities compared to others. In comparison, the Mercedes can be fastest in the second sector of any given track, that commonly favours high downforce, but they will also comfortably be in the top ten in the speed trap. Usually there has to be a compromise for decent straight line speed, with Mercedes there is no compromise; from the low speeds of Monaco, the high speed turns of Barcelona and the long straights of Monza – they truly have every area covered.

I also think the closeness between the Mercedes drivers and their freedom to race means that the battle up front is more exciting compared to other eras of one team solidly dominating. Sometimes the results are surprising (and controversial!). All throughout practice last week’s practice Rosberg dominated, even a sensor problem in final practice couldn’t prevent Rosberg going fastest. In Q1 Rosberg was again fastest, but from Q2 that dramatically changed. It was Rosberg looking loose and ragged in Q2 and Q3, and Hamilton got the pole.

It would be very easy to complain that Mercedes’ domination is boring, but I love seeing both drivers pushing each other, seeing their different driving styles and the wheel-to-wheel racing since 2014. In general racing is something so wonderful, it’s never boring!
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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're right about the closeness of both drivers making it more interesting than in previous eras of one dominant team. From 2010-13, for all Webbers speed and talent, he was always second place to Vettel, likewise with Rubens and Schumacher. The last time two drivers in one dominant team were so close was probably Senna and Prost. Hamiltons two titles with Mercedes have been in the face of much stiffer in house competition than Vettel ever tasted ar Red Bull.
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Eff One
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hamilton vs Rosberg - don't care. Much more importantly, taking them out of the equation gave us a proper 4-way fight for the win. How many of those have we had in the last couple of years?

At last, a good day for F1.
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Nice Guy Eddie
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must have been watching a different race. As soon as the Mercs crashed it was a procession of Red Bulls and Ferraris. If you can't overtake a circuit has had its day.
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Dr. Hfuhruhurr
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pole Rosberg
Lap Kvyat
Bonus n/a

1 Verstappen
2 Raikkonen
3 Vettel
4 Ricciardo
5 Bottas
6 Sainz
7 Perez
8 Massa
9 Button
10 Kvyat
11 Gutierrez

Scores

12 - PhilD
10 - the other ct
9 - Humphrey
8 - Eff One, JohnC, ChrisM
7 - Dr H, Scouse
6 - Sav
5 - Big Blue

Deemed (5 points)

BeN (toooooooo late!)

Standings

56 - PhilD
51 - Sav
43 - Scouse
41 - Eff One
40 - the other ct
39 - Chris M
38 - Big Blue
32 - JohnC
29 - BeN
28 - Dr H
25 - Humphrey
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BeN
The Motor, Singapore branch.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Hfuhruhurr wrote:


Deemed (5 points)

BeN (toooooooo late!)



Fack.



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