The Motor Forum

Dr. Hfuhruhurr · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:52 am Post subject: BMW 523i SE Touring automatic

Needed a replacement car for the weekend while mine is in the menders. I'd hoped for a new E Class but Sixt didn't have any, but offered me this or an A6. Having not driven the latest E60 I thought it was worth a try, and even more pleased to discover it was a petrol six not a diesel four. It was black with black/alu interior, which is probably what I'd choose on a Five. Being an SE it had 16" wheels, but surprisingly they didn't look undersized, perhaps because the SE doesn't have the bigger skirts and spoiler of the M Sport.

First impressions were very good. Black is obviously a good colour, and the interior is way better quality than early E60s. The new iDrive with a few "master" controls grouped around the rotary knob is an excellent way to provide lots of functionality with minimum clutter - indeed the minimalist centre console with its alu trim looked rather like high-end hi-fi gear. I quite like the new automatic gearstick too - preferable to a column stalk IMHO. And it had a real handbrake, not that I used it, being either in relatively flat Berlin-Brandenburg or even flatter Ostfriesland.

The first job was to drive the 300 miles from Berlin to Wilhelmshafen, and not surprisingly it proved a superb autobahn car. It was incredibly quiet and refined, but the six had a nice growl on acceleration. What a superb drivetrain - that lovely engine, which never seemed underpowered despite a quite heavy car to haul around, and an auto 'box that in sport mode always seemed to be in the right gear, neither "hunting" nor holding gears too long.

Obviously it didn't handle like my usual wheels, but it was perfectly linear in the way all the best BMWs are. The non sport suspension and 16" wheels meant a smooth cosseting ride without any real sacrifice in body control, even when I rounded a forest bend at some speed to find a section of old sagged cobbles (I allowed myself a brief shudder at the thought of hitting them in the Porsche).

Anything I didn't like? I'd be struggling to find anything without nit-picking, to be honest. The front seats were comfy, the back seats roomy, the boot vast. It's funny how the arrival of the new E Class and XF mean motoring journalists feel the need to slag off the 5 series, but on the basis of this, it's still a formidably capable, and more importantly, likeable car. Martin, if you're worried about its imminent replacement, I'd just say don't be - I can't believe anything else on your list would come close to matching it. And I'd take the SE over the M Sport too - I find the subtle full-width lower grille so much nicer than the M's gawping maw - and I notice Alpina base their model on the SE as well.

How quick? An indicated 235 kmh on one clear Autobahn section, in company with a spiritedly driven XJ.

Guitar Zero · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:24 am Post subject:

Dr. Hfuhruhurr · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:38 am Post subject:

I'm sure that's true, although my point was more about journalists' short attention spans, i.e. when a new car comes along they wet their pants over it, then proceed to slag off an older car that they were raving about only a couple a months before.

Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:38 am Post subject:

Very interesting!

I am undecided between the SE and M Sport. The M Sport on 19s was perfectly fine in terms of ride, but I really do need to try it on 18" RFTs. It would be interesting to compare that to the SE as well.

However, I was never bothered by the 130 on 18" RFTs and never understood what all the fuss was about, so what do I know?

In my opinion, the M Sport looks a lot better than the SE and it's not all to do with the bigger wheels!! I also think the SE will look dated more quickly, that's certainly what happened to the E46 as an example. Then there is the Sport seats and while the SE seats in the 5 are vastly better than the SE seats in a 3 (so not essential as they would be in a 3 series), I do like/prefer the sports seats.
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gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:41 am Post subject:

Dr. Hfuhruhurr · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:57 am Post subject:

The sport seats would certainly be a factor, but I cannot get on with the M Sport front bumper. I find the SE one far more tasteful, and since it's been facelifted, possibly less likely to look dated.

Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:58 am Post subject:

I am surprised

My point about the 130 was more to do with it being slated for its ride quality, but I found it perfectly acceptable. I'm expecting the 5 to ride better with more weight and a longer wheelbase? It certainly rode better on 19" wheels with standard tyres.
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Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:08 am Post subject:

Dr. Hfuhruhurr · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:37 am Post subject:

Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:47 am Post subject:

Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:34 pm Post subject:

The problem is that I'm quickly going off the idea of putting my own money into a company car, as it just seems wrong even though it's somewhere I'll be spending a lot of my time over the next 3 years.

The SE makes sense from that point of view, as it's on the normal list even in Business Edition trim. However, if you add Sports seats & wheel and the nicer 17" alloys, then you're up around the £600 mark. So 'only' another £400 for the M Sport

But then I know I would be pissed off whenever I saw an M Sport. So I could have a part leather, non bluetooth equipped M Sport and get a car kit fitted (which are ugly). But then I'd wish I had the full leather.....

Sorry, I'll leave it there!!

What about a Passat CC, they are lovely?

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Guitar Zero · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:57 pm Post subject:

Racing · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject:

Dr. Hfuhruhurr · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:36 pm Post subject:

gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject:

Solution.

Opt out - take the cash and buy a 2yr old Mondeo for £6K - used the saved money to buy an X5 for Mrs. Martin.

I'm sure she'll sign up to that plan

Audi Sportback, Audi Sportback, Audi Sportback......
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Aint no substitute for cubic inches.

Guitar Zero · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject:

Erm - wouldn't the annual tax bill on a 520d be less than the cost to buy and run an old Mondeo over 35k miles for two years ?

A company car is taxed every year, serviced or repaired when required and kept in fresh booties - all you do is wang diesel in it and get 45 to 50 mpg in return. Can you even get a 2 year old diesel Mondo for £6k ? - I think you would be in a 2.0 petrol which over 35k miles per annum is another 300 gallons of fuel (assuming 35 mpg) per year.

This time, the bangernomic maffs don't add up
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Previous convictions :

2006 Focus ST 2.5
2001 BMW 520i
2002 Focus 2.0 zetec
1999 Fiat Punto

TimR · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject:

Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:19 pm Post subject:

Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:20 pm Post subject:

If the A5 sportback has the same driving position as the A4, then that alone would rule it out.
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gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject:

Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:37 pm Post subject:

Calculations already done, 2 posts up!

Fuel is 11p a mile if you opt out and get a 2.0 litre diesel.
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Martin · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject:

gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:59 pm Post subject:

and for the better by the look of it

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Aint no substitute for cubic inches.

DaveGibson · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:02 pm Post subject:

It doesn't apply to private miles (that includes travelling between home and work) but owning your own car you can claim the difference between your company's mileage rate and that allowed by the taxman for business miles. It used to be 40p/mile for the first 10k miles and a lesser rate thereafter.

Guitar Zero · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject:

I think the cost of the Mondeo goes through the roof when you consider how you would fund the £6k to buy it.

It wouldn't be financially sound to forgoe a deposit free company car only to blow £6k savings on a Mondeo - you would use your allowance to pay off a £6k loan. Assuming your £6k Mondeo is 2 years old with 30k miles on it, it would probably be sensible to get rid off it at 100k miles (i.e, run it for 2 years). £6k loan over 2 years would be approx £275 a month and the value of the car at 4 years and 100k miles would be circa £1800 trade.

Or if you use cash outright - bank on £4.2k depreciation every 2 years plus the interest lost on not having your £6k in an ISA or shares or summat. Call it £200 a month all in.

You've just got to tax, insure, service, re-shoe, re-brake and repair it now.
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Previous convictions :

2006 Focus ST 2.5
2001 BMW 520i
2002 Focus 2.0 zetec
1999 Fiat Punto

DaveGibson · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:23 pm Post subject:

It obviously depends on how much the allowance from the company is and all the other costs. When I opted out of my company scheme in the late nineties, I made a gain of £11K over three years compared with the cost to me of having a company car. Admittedly, in that scheme my car wasn't 'free'. I was paying £250 a month for the car and paid for my own petrol, too.

the other ct · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:18 pm Post subject:

Is this now the third thread about Martin's new car?

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"I’m not gonna wear a ladies’ wetsuit I’m a man! ...Get me a small man’s wetsuit, please."

gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject:

Martin · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:25 am Post subject:

DaveGibson · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:35 am Post subject:

Mark · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:50 am Post subject:

I'm no company car fan - but if I was doing 35,000 business miles per year, there is no way I would even contemplate opting out of the company scheme.

If I was just tootling 10 miles to work and back though, I'd be out like a shot. A friend of mine was doing similar and now has around £500 per month in his pocket.

gonnabuildabuggy · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:32 pm Post subject:

Martin · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject:

Not for ever

It doesn't seem to take anywhere near as long as it used to and I do like driving! It's not like it's on public transport, that would be too awful to comtemplate!! I probably need to sync a move closer to work with my next car replacement date. Opt out then and get something more interesting. Maybe.

I do get some quality thinking time and I probably shouldn't admit it, but I probably spend an hour a day on the phone, so without the commute that would be done at home or I'd be in the office for an extra hour.

On a less serious note, wouldn't a 2 year old Mondeo be a current shape one? That's not so bad!! After all, I am driving around in a 2 week old Jetta

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Mark · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject:

Martin · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:45 pm Post subject:

Exactly, his master plan is so full of holes!!!
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PG · Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject:

A lot of the car v cash debate hinges on why the company offers the choice. We decided to get rid of the car fleet. So the allowances were generous in being set at the same cash cost as the company used to have (car + unrecoverable VAT + insurance + class 1A NI, less NI on the payroll instead) plus free fuel was continued. So by the time people got the tax allowance back on business miles tax deductions and no BIK, cash wise they were no worse off. The company saved the hassle of running a car fleet and one part time member of staff that used to run the fleet.

People then decided what to do with the cash based on their miles and needs. To make sure that fuel bills did not go silly, the same engine size limits were maintained for each band of car allowance.

Sounds like Martin's firm don't really want you to opt out.